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Financial Services Bill

I do not wish to detain the Committee, and I think that there is general agreement that whatever we do will not make any difference to the passage of the Bill, as it is perfectly obvious that the Bill is not going to reach the statute book or go through all its stages. There is a kind of Alice in Wonderland feel to this debate. However, I am very surprised that the Minister does not know on how many occasions the tripartite group got together prior to the crisis. After all, that structure was put in place by the Prime Minister as Chancellor, and I suspect that the role that this Bill has to play is that of a fig leaf for the Prime Minister. I think that I am right in saying that there were only two occasions when the principals met under the old tripartite structure; that was the evidence which I think we received in the Economic Affairs Committee during our inquiry into banking regulation. I am very surprised if the Minister does not know on how many occasions it happened. I listened to his explanation of why my noble friend’s amendments should not be accepted—it was very much based on the idea that those three parties working together and co-ordinating is essential to the proper conduct of affairs. If that is the Government’s position, one is left to conclude that it is an open acknowledgement by the Government that they took their eye off the ball when they were not meeting as a tripartite group at principal level in the run-up to the crisis. My anxiety concerns the question of why setting up a formal structure—with all of the costs, paraphernalia, stationery and everything else—would make any difference. It was perfectly apparent at the time of the Northern Rock crisis that the Government were, as my noble friend said, at sixes and sevens, and that it was unclear who was in charge. The Treasury was forced to take control. I remember at the time that the governor’s line was all about moral hazard, and we had great debates in this House about whether the governor was right to refuse the bid that was then made by Lloyds TSB to deal with Northern Rock. So, without going back over all that ground, it seems that the Minister is simply replicating a structure which failed and assuring us that by having some kind of formal structure it will be different. That is one point. My second point is that I am totally confused now about what the Minister said in response to the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Newby. Is he saying that no expenditure has been incurred and nothing has been done to pre-empt this legislation by the FSA or any other body—that nothing is being changed in anticipation of the Bill becoming law? If that is the case, can he state it clearly? I have not got the sharp eyes of my noble friend Lord Eccles, and I had not seen that clause. If not, is the Minister saying that this expenditure will be covered because there is a provision in the Bill which he hopes will be carried forward in the wash-up? We should know. Also—and I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Newby, is correct—if there are people in the FSA who are being told their jobs are changing or may be at risk on the basis of the Bill getting on the statute book, that is called forward planning and I fear for the planning of the FSA. Can no one in the FSA see what the noble Lords, Lord Barnett and Lord Peston, see, that the Bill has no possibility of reaching the statute book as it exists? It would be very foolish indeed to make forward planning on the basis of what might happen to the Bill, and what might happen after 6 May.