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Intelligence and Security Committee

The hon. Member for Kensington Pentlands, or something or other, says, "It still is." I thought so, too, but then other people compounded the fact, so everybody knows that the Committee is away next week somewhere. I remember being at the Members' entrance a few years ago. My right hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen (Mr. Murphy) was there, along with a few other people. I passed pleasantries. They were all looking rather sheepish, and they got into a white van. I thought it rather amusing and wondered where they were going. I discovered, of course, that they were going off on Committee business. That secret culture makes the whole thing a nonsense. People should focus on the things that really matter—real security, of which I am very mindful at this time of grave peril to our national security. I need no lessons in recognising that there is a very grave situation internationally. The threat of terrorism is real both from al-Qaeda and similar groups and also in terms of Northern Ireland. I am very concerned about the gravity of the situation, but sometimes people play games and do not focus on what really is important. I have acknowledged the work load of my right hon. Friend's Committee and the dedication and diligence of its members, but a theme of this afternoon's debate has been whether it could or should be a Select Committee. If we were to revisit these annual debates in which I have taken part, we would find that, very early on and for many years afterwards, when I even suggested that it become a Select Committee, there would come from the direction of Hampshire a reaction implying that I was stark staring bonkers. I see a chink today, because other people have talked about the Committee possibly being a Select Committee. Indeed, the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith), who is not in his place now, rightly said that it is not the title that matters, but the Committee's function. All that I have said, consistently, has been much in line with the things that some Members have uttered today but did not before. Of course we would have special ground rules for any Select Committee that absorbed the ISC's function, and of course much evidence would be given in private, and so it should be, but what has been refreshing today is the acknowledgement by some sensible Members that there is scope—I think that is the word—for some hearings to be held in public.