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Cluster Munitions (Prohibitions) Bill [Lords]

If I have taken up a somewhat disproportionate amount of time on this Bill, I make no apology whatever for having done so—despite the deputy Chief Whip's obvious concern. We need to give proper consideration to Bills in this House, but we do not do so, and more often than not legislation that some would deem to be less important than this Bill—I happen to believe that it is very important—gets next to no consideration, because the Government programme and guillotine Bills in a totally irresponsible manner. Indeed, had some of us on the Opposition Benches not asked some pertinent questions, we would not have had answers on a number of matters. We have made a lot of progress today, and I am glad of that because this measure affects innocent people, including children. Those who are concerned about children in whose territories cluster munitions are accumulated will want to know not only that we have passed the Bill but that we will be prepared to take the action necessary to clear the ground. It is one thing to pass legislation, but another to give it practical effect. We have already heard enough today about the complexities that will undoubtedly cause difficulties in achieving certainty, and not merely certainty about the legal position. I am deeply worried for our servicemen, because I think that they will get caught up in this. The penalty of 14 years' imprisonment is very severe and the Bill has so many problems in it that people will be caught up unnecessarily despite its good intentions and, I hope, its good results. Let me turn to the precedents for such Bills. The mustard gas that was used in the first world war was eventually outlawed, although not, of course, by Saddam Hussein. The fact is that such action on cluster munitions, which cause unnecessary and unreasonable deaths, is resisted by certain elements of our armed forces, so I am told. Despite the fact that the House of Commons, by consensus, has agreed that this Bill should go through, they do not believe that it is in the interests of our tactical and strategic operations to have such legislation. Passing a law is a useful step, but it will not necessarily have the effect of protecting the innocent or, indeed, of avoiding complications for servicemen. Those are the crucial questions and it would be extremely helpful if the Minister—if he would listen for a second—would be good enough to put in the Library of the House of Commons the manual or the guidance to which he referred. When this Bill has been enacted and comes into force, its practicality will be tested. I, for one, would like the Minister to confirm that he is prepared to put the manual, with appropriate guidance, into the Library so that we may compare the manner in which the Government have alleged that the Bill will be effective with the manner in which they implement it. Question put and agreed to. Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed, with an amendment.