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Debate on bill and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Tuesday, 23 March 2010, in the House of Commons.

Cluster Munitions (Prohibitions) Bill [Lords]

Cluster Munitions (Prohibitions) Bill (HL). Committee stage. New clause 1 debated and withdrawn. Amendments debated and withdrawn or negatived on division (190 to 255). Third reading. Agreed on question and bill passed, with an amendment.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
508 c150-92 
Session
2009-10
Department
Foreign and Commonwealth Office
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Third reading
Report stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Chris Bryant | 508 c180 (Link to this contribution) I will do my best. We want to make sure that all the overseas territories are fully compliant with t...
Ed Davey | 508 c179 (Link to this contribution) I rise briefly to say that the amendments are good proposals. I see no reason for having "may" and n...
Show all contributions (147)
William Cash | 508 c179-80 (Link to this contribution) I participated in a Westminster Hall debate initiated by the hon. Member for Islington, North (Jerem...
David Lidington | 508 c178-9 (Link to this contribution) Clause 33 covers the extent of the proposed Act. My amendments seek to strengthen the provisions whi...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 508 c178 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment 5, page 21, line 29, leave out "any of".
David Lidington | 508 c178 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 4, page 21, line 29, leave out "may" and insert "shall".
Chris Bryant | 508 c178 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is very perspicacious. I might have to write to him about this. I do not think th...
William Cash | 508 c177-8 (Link to this contribution) The clause specifically states:""This Act binds the Crown."" It goes on to say:""No contravention b...
Chris Bryant | 508 c177 (Link to this contribution) He says that he has just arrived, but he has been here for some time. He has clearly given up on tex...
Mark Durkan | 508 c174 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman raised concerns about the clause, and touched on possible implications for devolv...
Mark Durkan | 508 c171 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for giving way; he is very generous—and creative. Other hon. Members have refe...
Chris Bryant | 508 c171 (Link to this contribution) The Attorney-General's role is different from that of a politician. A politician might come up with ...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 508 c171 (Link to this contribution) Order. I thought that the Minister was intervening on the hon. Member for Stone (Mr. Cash).
Chris Bryant | 508 c171 (Link to this contribution) I hope that you meant that the other way round, Mrs. Heal, but anyway, now that we have cleared that...
Chris Bryant | 508 c171 (Link to this contribution) I thought that it was still my speech and that the hon. Gentleman was intervening; I gave way to him...
William Cash | 508 c171 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mrs. Heal. I apologise to the Minister, because I thought that he had finished ...
William Cash | 508 c170 (Link to this contribution) I give way to the hon. Gentleman.
David Lidington | 508 c171-2 (Link to this contribution) I want to ask the Minister why he believes that the pretty draconian enabling powers in the clause a...
William Cash | 508 c172-4 (Link to this contribution) Obviously, I agree with what my hon. Friend has said, but I would simply add a point. He refers to a...
David Drew | 508 c168 (Link to this contribution) I shall try to be helpful so that I am not chided for missing something. If I understood correctly w...
Chris Bryant | 508 c168-9 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that that has nothing to do with clause 23, which is about the disclosure of information...
William Cash | 508 c169 (Link to this contribution) This is a very important clause, because when we bring all the arguments that we have addressed so f...
Mark Durkan | 508 c169 (Link to this contribution) It is not often that I am called in aid by the hon. Gentleman, so there is a blue moon this evening....
Chris Bryant | 508 c168 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman must have slipped out of the Chamber when I answered a similar question from the ...
William Cash | 508 c168 (Link to this contribution) We are debating clause stand part. It was my intention, in line with the remarks of my hon. Friend t...
Chris Bryant | 508 c168 (Link to this contribution) I would not dare suggest that the hon. Gentleman table an amendment, or do anything in particular. M...
William Cash | 508 c169-70 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely glad that the hon. Gentleman is here, by an accident of fate, because that has helped...
Chris Bryant | 508 c170 (Link to this contribution) We could have left out clause 24, which would have meant that the Attorney-General had no role to pl...
William Cash | 508 c170 (Link to this contribution) I am very glad in one sense to hear what the Minister has just said. On whether consent for prosecut...
William Cash | 508 c174-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right, of course, because although subsection (1) is definitely tied to""any a...
Mark Durkan | 508 c175 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that relevant observation, although I am not sure that we can await t...
William Cash | 508 c175 (Link to this contribution) It is slightly extraordinary that the Bill gives rise to so many complications, and, in many ways, I...
Mark Durkan | 508 c175-6 (Link to this contribution) Again, I thank the hon. Gentleman for those points. All I ask of the Minister—obviously he cannot ac...
Mark Durkan | 508 c176 (Link to this contribution) I assure the Minister that I was not looking for an insistence on primary legislation, and I accept ...
Chris Bryant | 508 c176 (Link to this contribution) I understand that, and I was not making such an allegation against my hon. Friend. One of the diffic...
Chris Bryant | 508 c177 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is attempting orally to table an amendment, but unfortunately it has not been tab...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 508 c154 (Link to this contribution) Order. An hon. Member may speak more than once, as indeed can the Minister.
William Cash | 508 c154 (Link to this contribution) I would like to take up the Minister's last point, in the context of a provision to which we have no...
Chris Bryant | 508 c153 (Link to this contribution) I give way to the hon. Gentleman.
Ed Davey | 508 c153 (Link to this contribution) I do not believe the issue has anything to do with the European arrest warrant; it relates to whethe...
Chris Bryant | 508 c153-4 (Link to this contribution) I think we are making slightly heavy weather of this. In an ideal world, the whole world would be ra...
Chris Bryant | 508 c155 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but that is completely and utterly untrue. There would be no distinction. Any foreigner ...
Ed Davey | 508 c154-5 (Link to this contribution) I had not intended to speak to this amendment, but the hon. Member for Aylesbury (Mr. Lidington) has...
Chris Bryant | 508 c157 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept that because the European arrest warrant works in a very different way and is not at...
David Lidington | 508 c157 (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting short debate, not least because of the historic concordat between Kings...
Lord Redwood | 508 c157 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend confirm from the Front Bench that were the Minister to come up with a way of dea...
David Lidington | 508 c157 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to give the assurance that my right hon. Friend seeks. Subject to your discretion, Sir Al...
William Cash | 508 c157-8 (Link to this contribution) In referring to Opposition Members, not necessarily of the same party, I think my hon. Friend was fa...
David Lidington | 508 c158 (Link to this contribution) I will not commit myself to putting my name to such an amendment at this stage, but I agree with my ...
Chris Bryant | 508 c158 (Link to this contribution) I want to be as helpful as I can, and I should like to be able to consider the idea of a manuscript ...
David Lidington | 508 c158 (Link to this contribution) The Committee is in some difficulty, because our time is limited, and this is the only opportunity t...
Lord Redwood | 508 c158 (Link to this contribution) It is difficult for us to accept that, given the number of gradations of status for tax purposes in ...
David Lidington | 508 c158 (Link to this contribution) There are certainly many gradations of tax status. There are also—as the hon. Member for Kingston an...
Ed Davey | 508 c155 (Link to this contribution) The Minister argues that point with great conviction, and he might be right, but I would seriously u...
Lord Redwood | 508 c155-6 (Link to this contribution) I rise to support my hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury (Mr. Lidington) and others, having listene...
Chris Bryant | 508 c156 (Link to this contribution) In response to the hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Mr. Davey), of course we have consulted th...
William Cash | 508 c155 (Link to this contribution) I am beginning to sense that the hon. Gentleman is taking a pragmatic and sensible view of this matt...
Ed Davey | 508 c155 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps we are in agreement, which might be a first, but I am not convinced that the issues regardin...
William Cash | 508 c156 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is not answering the question.
Chris Bryant | 508 c156 (Link to this contribution) I am at liberty not to give way again, I'm afraid. The hon. Gentleman has now made me lose my direct...
Chris Bryant | 508 c156 (Link to this contribution) I am not giving way again. [Interruption.] I am sorry, but I am not going to give way.
William Cash | 508 c156 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the Minister. While he finds his lodestar, let me come back to a simple p...
William Cash | 508 c162 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister aware of any of the problems relating to cluster munitions arising in a far more imm...
Chris Bryant | 508 c162 (Link to this contribution) That is a fair point, but the word "handle" could stretch its meaning in many different ways. That i...
Chris Bryant | 508 c162 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. We hope that all countries will sign and ratify the convention and that they will take t...
Lord Redwood | 508 c162 (Link to this contribution) I am very keen that we do not imperil and put at legal risk our forces when they are doing their dut...
Chris Bryant | 508 c162 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentions Georgia and it—and Russia, for that matter—is likewise key. The reason ...
Chris Bryant | 508 c161 (Link to this contribution) You referred to predictive texting and predictive speeches, Sir Alan. Earlier today, I tried to send...
William Cash | 508 c161-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. In fact, the EU dimension that I have mentioned, which causes some hi...
Chris Bryant | 508 c161 (Link to this contribution) I will give way, if the hon. Gentleman will let me make a little further progress with my argument. ...
David Lidington | 508 c161 (Link to this contribution) My question to the Minister is rather narrower than the important issues raised by my right hon. Fri...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 508 c161 (Link to this contribution) Order. I have heard of predictive text, but not of predictive speeches. I call Mr. Lidington.
William Cash | 508 c160 (Link to this contribution) Indeed the Minister has not spoken about this yet, but I can almost predict that he will take exactl...
Chris Bryant | 508 c160 (Link to this contribution) I have not spoken about this yet.
William Cash | 508 c160 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. Some people are not familiar with and simply do not know about the St. Malo agreement an...
Lord Redwood | 508 c160 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has made a better study of this than me and is a trained lawyer. Does he agree that m...
William Cash | 508 c159-60 (Link to this contribution) I would like to take up a point made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr. Redwood) ...
Lord Redwood | 508 c159 (Link to this contribution) It would be helpful to the Committee if the Minister gave an explanation of how likely he thinks the...
David Lidington | 508 c158-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has made a good point, which illustrates the extent to which legislation benefits fro...
William Cash | 508 c158 (Link to this contribution) There is also the question of the defence that might be raised in relation to what the Bill defines ...
David Drew | 508 c166 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Stone (Mr. Cash) and I make interesting cellmates. I understand what the Minist...
William Cash | 508 c166-8 (Link to this contribution) Just by looking at the clause, I note that its origins and inherent problems clearly involve questio...
Chris Bryant | 508 c166 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is a splendid chap, but I think he missed the debate on clause 9, which we have alrea...
Chris Bryant | 508 c165 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure what charge, allegation or accusation was implicit in the comments of the extremely ch...
William Cash | 508 c166 (Link to this contribution) When we are dealing with questions of evidence, we have to admit that there is not only the question...
Chris Bryant | 508 c166 (Link to this contribution) Those troops would have committed a criminal offence, subject to up to 14 years' imprisonment and/or...
David Drew | 508 c166 (Link to this contribution) On that point, will my hon. Friend give way?
Chris Bryant | 508 c166 (Link to this contribution) Twenty-six years is considerably longer than the hon. Gentleman would get for using cluster munition...
Lord Redwood | 508 c165 (Link to this contribution) I come back to the point that we have just briefly debated, because it is also relevant to this clau...
Chris Bryant | 508 c164 (Link to this contribution) We do not seek to introduce new powers in British legislation for us to have access to buildings and...
Chris Bryant | 508 c164 (Link to this contribution) The truth is that we would not have the convention if it had not included the interoperability provi...
William Cash | 508 c165 (Link to this contribution) The issues that we have already discussed have been covered as adequately as we can, given the const...
Chris Bryant | 508 c163 (Link to this contribution) It will indeed. That is a further reason why we think it important to provide the legal certainty th...
Ed Davey | 508 c163-4 (Link to this contribution) The points that the right hon. Gentleman has made are right. We need to ensure that our forces have ...
William Cash | 508 c163 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether my right hon. Friend has noticed this, but clause 34(1) states:""This Act come...
Lord Redwood | 508 c163 (Link to this contribution) We have not had a very full explanation from the Minister. Of course my colleagues and I share his w...
Ed Davey | 508 c152 (Link to this contribution) I think that the hon. Member for Aylesbury (Mr. Lidington) has a point. If someone is permanently re...
Chris Bryant | 508 c152 (Link to this contribution) No, of course I will not. The important point is that many other countries are already signatories. ...
William Cash | 508 c152 (Link to this contribution) I will not deal with a theoretical, a hypothetical or a speculative; as may be judged from my demean...
William Cash | 508 c150-1 (Link to this contribution) I share my hon. Friend's concern. He said that it is probing amendment, but of course, in the contex...
Chris Bryant | 508 c151 (Link to this contribution) I understand the nature of the argument made by the hon. Member for Aylesbury (Mr. Lidington), but I...
David Lidington | 508 c150 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 1, page 2, line 33, leave out subsection (3). This is a probing amendment. ...
David Lidington | 508 c152 (Link to this contribution) I understand the Minister's argument, but surely it leads us towards the following perhaps unlikely,...
David Drew | 508 c151 (Link to this contribution) That is at the nub of the point that I raised on Second Reading. Things are not quite as simple as t...
Chris Bryant | 508 c151-2 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that my hon. Friend is right on that last point about there being cluster munitions th...
William Cash | 508 c153 (Link to this contribution) The Minister shakes his head, but I think he said that the land mines legislation was enacted in—
William Cash | 508 c153 (Link to this contribution) So it predates the European arrest warrant, which means my point remains. The situation I have in mi...
Chris Bryant | 508 c153 (Link to this contribution) For the most part, when a non-British national goes abroad and breaks the law in another country, ob...
William Cash | 508 c153 (Link to this contribution) This is the Committee stage—and it is on the Floor of the House, too—so it is important that we get ...
Chris Bryant | 508 c153 (Link to this contribution) I will give way one final time to the hon. Gentleman.
William Cash | 508 c191-2 (Link to this contribution) If I have taken up a somewhat disproportionate amount of time on this Bill, I make no apology whatev...
Mark Durkan | 508 c190-1 (Link to this contribution) When the Minister opened this debate, he rightly paid tribute to the Norwegian Government's leadersh...
Ed Davey | 508 c189-90 (Link to this contribution) At the moment, British politics, and this place in particular, is held in low regard by the public. ...
Chris Bryant | 508 c185 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 6, page 21, line 36, leave out subsection (3). This is very straightforward...
William Cash | 508 c185 (Link to this contribution) I am more interested in facts than fictions. I am concerned about clause 34(1), which says:""This Ac...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 508 c182 (Link to this contribution) I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the Aye Lobby.
David Lidington | 508 c181-2 (Link to this contribution) I listened with interest to the Minister's comments, and I am grateful for the support of my hon. Fr...
Chris Bryant | 508 c181 (Link to this contribution) Yes, absolutely. In relation to Diego Garcia in particular, as I said last week, the United States h...
David Lidington | 508 c181 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister have it in mind that 2013 will be the date by which the convention and the Bill wi...
Chris Bryant | 508 c181 (Link to this contribution) But, if my hon. Friend will allow me to say so, that is to forget amendment 5, which is to remove th...
Mark Durkan | 508 c181 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has argued that because some of the terms in the Bill are not consistent with the legal...
Chris Bryant | 508 c180-1 (Link to this contribution) It varies significantly from one overseas territory to another. Obviously, the Falklands is differen...
Chris Bryant | 508 c188-9 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. I hope that all hon. Members will agree th...
Mark Durkan | 508 c187 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his helpful clarification. Can he go further by assuring us that annual rep...
Chris Bryant | 508 c187 (Link to this contribution) Would that my assurances always satisfied the hon. Member for Stone (Mr. Cash). He apologised earlie...
David Lidington | 508 c188 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation and, in particular, for the assurance that article...
Chris Bryant | 508 c188 (Link to this contribution) Annual reports certainly will be made, because that is provided for in the article. I am therefore h...
David Lidington | 508 c186 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. The convention imposes on all states parties ...
William Cash | 508 c186 (Link to this contribution) I am glad to have got the point on the record. Amendment agreed to. Clause 34, as amended, ordered...
William Cash | 508 c187 (Link to this contribution) I also hope that the provision is not necessary. Without wanting to be too pedantic—or precise, to p...
Ed Davey | 508 c186 (Link to this contribution) I have great sympathy with the new clause and I hope that the Minister will explain that it is not n...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 508 c186 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I remind the hon. Gentleman that we are discussing amendment No. 6? Perhaps his remarks c...
Chris Bryant | 508 c176 (Link to this contribution) I confess that I am not a big fan of the clause. I do not generally like such clauses, and I think t...
Lord Redwood | 508 c165 (Link to this contribution) Let us consider a country such as Afghanistan. Let us suppose that British troops broke our law and ...
Lord Redwood | 508 c163 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. I hope there will be proper guidance and briefings for all our military personnel who might ...
Lord Redwood | 508 c164 (Link to this contribution) We are rushing through these clauses, so it would be helpful if the Minister explained why so many o...
William Cash | 508 c176-7 (Link to this contribution) But I am sure that the Minister will appreciate my point that a very simple manuscript amendment cou...
Chris Bryant | 508 c152 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman rather gave away his argument, because he said at the beginning of his comments, ...
David Lidington | 508 c189 (Link to this contribution) Conservative Members are happy to welcome the Bill on to the statute book. As the Minister fairly po...
William Cash | 508 c180 (Link to this contribution) The Minister will understand why I immediately refer him back to clause 29 and the power to modify A...
Subjects
Disclosure of information Armed forces Decommissioning Deployment Arms control Cluster munitions Enforcement Powers of entry Prosecutions Treaties
Legislation
Cluster Munitions (Prohibitions) Bill (HL) 2009-10
Link
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