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Legislative Programme and Budget Statement (Wales)

My hon. Friend is correct but, again, I am veering a long way from where I wanted to be. Let me simply say this. We all recognised the need to reduce public spending. There is no point shying away from that. If there are to be cuts in public spending, we could look at where they need to fall. For example, I was very sorry to hear that Gwent theatre is to have its funding from the Arts Council of Wales cut and may even be forced to close. I am sure that many people will ask where else the Arts Council of Wales is spending money and whether that cut is the most appropriate for it to make. I have heard talk, although not in the House yet, about reducing the number of people who go to prison. That would concern me because I do not necessarily accept that reducing prison numbers will save costs, nor do I accept the figures that have been bandied around in some newspapers. I know that the referendum will be a big issue for the Committee and the Assembly. There is no point in insulting each other’s intelligence: we all know that there are big divisions. There are divisions within our own parties and in Wales about it. It is not our job to widen those divisions. The job of the Committee will be to try to look for agreement on issues relating to the fairness of the referendum. Whatever happens, that result will be a difficult one for people in Wales to take if they are on the losing side. I make no secret of the fact that I am a Unionist. I opposed the creation of the Welsh Assembly and there is no point in denying that I would vote against further powers for it. I respect the views of Opposition Members who say that strengthening the Welsh Assembly would strengthen the Union, and of those who quite openly would prefer Wales to leave the Union altogether—at least, that is my understanding of their position. It is possible to respect that and I hope that the views of people who genuinely fear that further powers for the Assembly could lead to Wales losing its place in the Union will also be respected. All I would seek is a referendum that is fair to all sides so that they can get their arguments across. The question has to be fair to all sides. Then, when the voice of the people of Wales is heard, all sides can respect the answer, whatever it is. Surely that is good for all of us.