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Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

On 17 April, the Lord Chancellor said to the House of Commons: "““There is no doubt that the present level of legal aid provision is on any measure unaffordably expensive ... Even after our reforms have been carried … we will still have by far the most costly legal aid system in the world. It is almost twice as expensive as that in any other country per head of population””.—[Official Report, Commons, 17/4/12; col. 217.]" The amendments that the other place addressed on 17 April concerned civil legal aid, and I would be grateful if the Minister would advise us as to which common law jurisdictions in other countries actually spend twice per head of population on civil legal aid that we do. I recognise that our expenditure on criminal legal aid is very high by international standards, but the Government have not chosen to reform criminal legal aid. We are dealing here with the reform of civil legal aid. I wonder whether what we are being asked to accept is based on a false premise. I very much doubt that it is correct that our expenditure on civil legal aid is so enormously out of line as the Lord Chancellor suggested. I am very willing to be corrected. At all events, my noble friend Lord Bach ventured an estimate that the cost of the amendment that we are debating now might be some £15 million. Again, I ask the Minister whether he believes that, in the context of public expenditure of the order of £100 billion per year, the expenditure of £15 million to provide legal aid to support welfare benefit claimants in cases where there is real reason to doubt whether the assessment or the adjudication that has been made of their case is appropriate is unaffordable or disproportionate. The Lord Chancellor last week in the House of Commons put the figure at £25 million, so £15 million or £25 million in relation to social security expenditure of £100 billion does not seem inordinately expensive. Yet, he said: "““we cannot afford provision in an area of relatively low priority””.—[Official Report, Commons, 17/4/12; col. 224.]" Is it appropriate to describe such an area of expenditure as a relatively low priority? We are dealing with cases of people in poverty. There would be no question of their being eligible for welfare benefits unless they were on low incomes. The risk for them, if they are not awarded benefit, is that they will be cast into abject poverty. For them, this is not a matter of relatively low priority, and nor should it be for us. The ration that the Legal Services Commission offers of £160 in legal aid to support advice and assistance in welfare benefits cases at an early stage is by no means extravagant—indeed, it represents very good value for money—and may make all the difference to people who may be awarded legal aid or benefits from organisations funded by legal aid as to whether they can lead decent and proper lives, reconstruct their situations, support their families and live other than in poverty. The Lord Chancellor also made the point that the welfare benefits tribunals are accessible and have been designed as tribunals in which it is realistic and practical for ordinary people to argue their case. Well, I have heard it suggested by people who are extensively experienced and closely familiar with the work of the tribunals that that is not a valid assertion: that the employment, immigrations and other tribunals that are relevant to this particular amendment are places in which complex legal issues are transacted, where it is not at all a simple or realistic thing for people who have not been advised to make their way and make their case. Attention has already been drawn by my noble friend to the fact that universal credit is to be brought in. I understand that the transition to universal credit will not be completed for several years, and could take as long as until 2017. This is an enormous legal and regulatory set of changes. With the best will in the world, and I do not doubt that the administrators and adjudicators of the social security system have the best will in the world—why should I doubt that?—it will be difficult for them to cope with the scale and complexity of these changes. My noble friend was quite right to anticipate that there will be a high error rate in the interpretation of the new law, not just in matters of fact. Error rates will start at the lower levels of the system. Unless those legal complexities are picked up, recognised and properly dealt with at the lower levels, there is no virtue in allowing legal aid at the higher levels because the cases will get screened out before they ever reach the higher levels. I am worried that the concession that the Government offered in the other place last week may be less real than it may have seemed in the eyes of government supporters there. For all these reasons it is very rash and irresponsible to withdraw legal aid in this area, particularly at this time. The Government simply cannot know the extent of the damage that may be done by the withdrawal of legal aid and the removal of this area of benefits from its scope. I hope very much that they will agree with us now, and if they do not I hope that this House will ask the other place to think again on this peculiarly important issue.