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Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, referred to her regret that immigration is not included in the amendment. In fairness to the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, this amendment is in lieu and something has to be different from the original amendment. An invidious choice had to be made and one could regret that any one of the categories was to be omitted but one had to be in order for the amendment to be in order. I am indebted to JustRights for its briefing, which no doubt many noble Lords will have seen. JustRights is made up of some 18 voluntary sector organisations. When the Minister refers to extra support for citizens advice bureaux—which I think she identified in particular although she may have been referring to the whole sector—of £20 million a year for three years, one should know that Citizens Advice sustained a loss of £80 million. That sum is for everything and not just for children. Such investment has to be seen in that context. However, as regards these amendments, by my calculation, taking out the immigration cases, the cost of accepting the noble Baroness's amendment would be of the order of £2.8 million. JustRights estimated about £5 million to £6 million according to the Ministry's estimates but that included something like £1 million for immigration. I beg the pardon of noble Lords but that figure should be more: the net saving should be about £4 million. It points out that the Local Government Association—I declare an interest as a vice-president of that organisation—estimates that the removal of legal aid for unaccompanied child asylum seekers in immigration cases, which this amendment does not seek to restore, would cost local authorities £10 million. In other words, the cost to one element of the public purse will go substantially to exceed the savings which would accrue from the Government's package. It is estimated by Youth Access and the Legal Services Research Centre that greater costs will fall on other elements of the public sector, including the welfare system and the National Health Service. I will give a brief indication of the kind of cases that will no longer be covered: 280 debt cases; 90 employment cases; 430 housing cases; 1,330 welfare benefit cases; 90 cases involving the police; 110 cases involving education; an unknown number in respect of clinical negligence, because of course there has now been this government concession; 300 personal injury cases; and 165 other cases. This is a wide spread of cases, individually costing relatively modest amounts if the Government were to accept this amendment. As it stands, 13 per cent of children's cases will now be out of scope. The exceptional funding scheme will not be sufficient to protect the children covered by this amendment. Again, for a very small sum of money, a substantial number of children, who are among the most vulnerable, will be deprived of legal advice and assistance. Your Lordships will note that this briefing comes from an organisation not of lawyers in private practice but from precisely the sector to which the Government look to support people in difficulty in this and other areas. It is simply unacceptable to withdraw this level of support from these vulnerable young people. I hope that even at this late stage the Government will reconsider. If not, we will certainly support the noble Baroness should she decide to test the opinion of the House.