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Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bill on Wednesday, 19 April 2006, in the House of Lords.

Government of Wales Bill 2005-06

Government of Wales Bill. Lords Committee stage first day. Clauses 1, 4 to 6, 8 to 26 agreed to. Clauses 2 and 7 agreed to as amended. Schedule 1 agreed to. Part 1 of 2 records.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
680 c1058-114 
Session
2005-06
Department
Wales Office
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
Government defeats
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Crickhowell | 680 c1058-60 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1:"Page 1, line 5, leave out first ““to be””" The noble Lord said: Amendments N...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 680 c1060-1 (Link to this contribution) In proposing Amendment No. 2, it is necessary for us as a party to state where we are coming from as...
Show all contributions (102)
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 680 c1061 (Link to this contribution) I am persuaded so far by what the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, said in respect of what is, and what...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 680 c1061-2 (Link to this contribution) On the amendment dealing with whether we use the word ““parliament”” or ““senedd”” to describe the p...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 680 c1062-4 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that we are all grateful to my noble friend Lord Crickhowell for opening in his usual poig...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 680 c1064 (Link to this contribution) I welcomed the words of the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, who quoted something that I was going t...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 680 c1064-5 (Link to this contribution) The past 27 minutes have shown what an interesting Committee stage we will have on the Bill. I hope ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 680 c1066 (Link to this contribution) I must apologise for not having picked up that point in my speech. We will attempt to do that. We wi...
Lord Crickhowell | 680 c1065-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for explaining why there is no real explanation or reference in Clause...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 680 c1058 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Moved acc...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 680 c1083-4 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, deployed some good arguments about what we all recognise is a probl...
Lord Davies of Coity | 680 c1083 (Link to this contribution) The justification for a Wales constituency suggests to me that one would then be representing a coun...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 680 c1084 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken and who have, with the customary courtesy of t...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 680 c1084-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 5:"Page 2, line 2, at end insert ““(as specified in the Parliamentary Constituen...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 680 c1085 (Link to this contribution) Did I hear the noble Lord say that they were ““tactical”” amendments?
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 680 c1085 (Link to this contribution) I was about to correct the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, or tackle him on the same technical point. Certa...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 680 c1079-81 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 4A:"Page 1, line 11, leave out from ““for”” to end of line 12 and insert ““an al...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 680 c1078-9 (Link to this contribution) I have listened to the Minister and to the predictability of some of the things that he said. Before...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 680 c1076-8 (Link to this contribution) We have had an interesting and inevitably wide-ranging debate on electoral systems, which was to be ...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 680 c1082 (Link to this contribution) Briefly, we do not support this amendment, although I know that the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of L...
Lord Norton of Louth | 680 c1081-2 (Link to this contribution) I will be brief. There are three problems with the proposed system. The first, fundamental, one is t...
Baroness Gale | 680 c1081 (Link to this contribution) I accept that the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, has put forward quite a good argument for why we shou...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 680 c1082-3 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, is right that Wales has national problems. It is important that Mem...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 680 c1082 (Link to this contribution) One of the weaknesses of Wales—which is also its strength—is the excessive localism. Hiraeth is not ...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 680 c1069 (Link to this contribution) I have listened carefully to what the noble Lord has said in favour of this amendment and the substi...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 680 c1068-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 4:"Page 1, line 8, leave out subsection (2) and insert—" ““(2) The Senedd is t...
Lord Norton of Louth | 680 c1074 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I sympathise with the view expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson. I agree with the va...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 680 c1072-4 (Link to this contribution) I have listened intently and with great respect to the words of the noble Lord, Lord Richard, and I,...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 680 c1075-6 (Link to this contribution) I was rather surprised that the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy, said that the proposals had had n...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 680 c1074-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope that noble Lords will not mind a Scot joining in the debate. The Minister seemed ra...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 680 c1071 (Link to this contribution) I support everything that the noble Lord, Lord Richard, said. I am delighted to hear him—as the one ...
Lord Richard | 680 c1069-70 (Link to this contribution) Since my report has been mentioned, perhaps I may explain why we came to our conclusions. Briefly, t...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 680 c1071-2 (Link to this contribution) It has been valuable to hear the reasons given by the noble Lord, Lord Richard, why he, personally, ...
Lord Crickhowell | 680 c1066 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that. My noble friend Lord Roberts of Conwy identified an extremely importa...
Lord Boston of Faversham | 680 c1068 (Link to this contribution) If Amendment No. 4 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment No. 4A.
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 680 c1068 (Link to this contribution) Having already spoken to the amendment, I merely thank the noble Lords, Lord Elystan-Morgan and Lord...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 680 c1067-8 (Link to this contribution) This amendment was grouped with Amendments Nos. 1 and 3. As it covers a different subject, I seek to...
Lord Boston of Faversham | 680 c1067 (Link to this contribution) Forgive me; as the noble Lord proposes to speak to this amendment, I must point out to the Committee...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 680 c1067 (Link to this contribution) had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 2:"Page 1, line 5, leave out from first ““be...
Lord Crickhowell | 680 c1066-7 (Link to this contribution) When we come to Part 3, we will discover that clause after clause was debated by the Assembly and th...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 680 c1066 (Link to this contribution) I make a rather obvious point. If the decision is to be that of the Assembly, and to regard it as ha...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 680 c1110-1 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that noble Lords will appreciate that the Government do not regard this Bill as an appropr...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 680 c1111-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that response and I thank noble Lords who participated in this short debate...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 680 c1112-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 26:"Page 15, line 28, at end insert ““an acting presiding officer." (1A) The A...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 680 c1113-4 (Link to this contribution) I shall first speak to Amendment No. 26, standing in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Livsey of Ta...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 680 c1108-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 23:"Page 8, line 14, at end insert—" ““(1A) For the purposes of subsection (1)...
Lord Norton of Louth | 680 c1109-10 (Link to this contribution) I speak against the amendment, since I spoke against votes at 16 on the Electoral Administration Bil...
Baroness Gale | 680 c1110 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Norton of Louth, that this is not the correct Bill to lower the vo...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 680 c1114 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House do now resume, and I suggest that the Committee does not begin again be...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 680 c1114 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for a very detailed reply indeed. I shall study it, verify what I believe he ha...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 680 c1104-5 (Link to this contribution) Does that mean that the Government will also be introducing similar prohibitions against London Asse...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 680 c1105 (Link to this contribution) We will address those issues in good time. I have already indicated to the noble Lord that we have n...
Lord Norton of Louth | 680 c1104 (Link to this contribution) If it is a blot on the electoral arrangements in this country, why it is not a blot on the electoral...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 680 c1104 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord will know, in one or two counties the issue is being addressed. I have already hea...
Lord Crickhowell | 680 c1103-4 (Link to this contribution) It is not the only case. Does he agree that exactly the same situation exists in Scotland? Indeed, i...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 680 c1104 (Link to this contribution) The reason why I am replying to the debate is that it is a high privilege to be asked to do so. I am...
Viscount Allenby of Megiddo | 680 c1108 (Link to this contribution) As the Committee has already been advised, due to pre-emption, I cannot call Amendments Nos. 17A to ...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 680 c1106 (Link to this contribution) If the aim had been to ensure the greatest Labour representation, that would have been done by havin...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 680 c1105-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all who have participated in the debate. It is clear that there is a range of feeli...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 680 c1103 (Link to this contribution) My contention from this Dispatch Box is not to say that this Government any more than any other gove...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 680 c1103 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord appreciate that every word he says is creating a difference between the list Mem...
Baroness Elles | 680 c1103 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. I remind him that the manifesto contained the p...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 680 c1103 (Link to this contribution) We have already had a debate on STV, and we have already identified its manifest imperfections. Unde...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 680 c1097-8 (Link to this contribution) I agree that it would not stop them; the noble Lord, and, even more, the Secretary of State for Wale...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 680 c1101 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord not agree that by putting them here it makes absolutely sure that they will nev...
Lord Crickhowell | 680 c1098-100 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that we have all enjoyed the exchanges between the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes of Cumnock, an...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 680 c1096 (Link to this contribution) Why are the Government not seeing sense either in the way that the noble Lord described or in the ot...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 680 c1096 (Link to this contribution) I can tell the noble Lord that I am working hard on the Government. I keep on working on them; I hav...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 680 c1096 (Link to this contribution) I must intervene: we are almost becoming like the House of Commons—I do not want that. I did not say...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 680 c1096 (Link to this contribution) Why is that Liberal Democrat Peers are to be so often misquoted out of context?
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 680 c1096-7 (Link to this contribution) They can speak only for themselves. I was going to come again to the noble Lord, Lord Steel of Aikwo...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 680 c1097 (Link to this contribution) I refer the noble Lord to a quotation from Mr Peter Hain at Second Reading of the Bill in the Common...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 680 c1095 (Link to this contribution) With respect to the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, we are not talking about single transferable vote. We a...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 680 c1095 (Link to this contribution) In response to that intervention, I have no doubt that my noble friend Lord Steel said that. However...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 680 c1095-6 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the Committee will forgive me if I make a short intervention in a debate on Wales, albei...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 680 c1095 (Link to this contribution) I realise what the noble Lord is saying, but I know that my noble friend Lord Steel was coming from ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 680 c1085 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 6:"Page 2, line 4, leave out from ““are”” to end of line 6 and insert ““as speci...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 680 c1085-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 8:"Page 2, line 33, leave out subsection (1) and insert—" ““(1) The Presiding ...
Lord Crickhowell | 680 c1087 (Link to this contribution) When I spoke to Amendment No. 1, I said that I had a certain amount of sympathy with the amendment t...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 680 c1087 (Link to this contribution) The short answer is because we are considering an emergency situation. The date on which the electio...
Lord Crickhowell | 680 c1087-8 (Link to this contribution) I indicated that it was precisely because we were dealing with a limited situation that it could be ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 680 c1088 (Link to this contribution) With regard to the fundamental issue of an extraordinary general election, the noble Lord will recog...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 680 c1088-9 (Link to this contribution) I found that answer extraordinarily puzzling. First, Clause 5 has the procedure for Her Majesty to m...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 680 c1089 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for that invitation. Again, if an order has to be made in emergency ...
Lord Crickhowell | 680 c1089 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is getting into a worse tangle than ever. He has not attempted to answer my first inter...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 680 c1089 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, will recognise that of course it would be practicable to do both. ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 680 c1089-90 (Link to this contribution) I have not come to the Dispatch Box with full details on the position in Scotland. However, I want t...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 680 c1091 (Link to this contribution) I was singularly unhelpful on the previous group of amendments so I hope to be a little more positiv...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 680 c1091-2 (Link to this contribution) I listened carefully to what the Minister said and I will have to read his response in some detail a...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 680 c1090 (Link to this contribution) I remain in a state of confusion. I do not believe that the Minister, with the greatest respect, has...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 680 c1094-5 (Link to this contribution) I very much support the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy. He has stated all ...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 680 c1095 (Link to this contribution) May I quote the noble Lord, Lord Steel, directly from his Edinburgh Book Festival lecture on 18 Augu...
Lord Geddes | 680 c1092 (Link to this contribution) Before calling Amendment No. 17, I must advise the Committee that if it is agreed to I will not be a...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 680 c1092-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 17:"Page 4, line 32, leave out subsections (5) and (6) and insert—" ““(5) The ...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 680 c1085 (Link to this contribution) From these Benches, we recognise that these are tactical amendments. We agree with them. As they are...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 680 c1101-3 (Link to this contribution) We have had an interesting debate. Of course, the main principles of the debate revolve around Amend...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 680 c1090-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 16:"Page 4, line 30, at end insert—" ““(   )   The regional returning officer ...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 680 c1100-1 (Link to this contribution) I do not think I have ever heard a better argument for single transferable votes than the one we had...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 680 c1106 (Link to this contribution) I think that even the Labour Party would have been ashamed of creating such a system; and that is wh...
Subjects
Devolved matters Constituency size Constituencies Candidates Devolution Elections Electoral systems Members National Assembly for Wales Wales Welsh Government Single transferable vote
Legislation
Government of Wales Bill 2005-06
Link
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