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Debate on bill on Tuesday, 7 November 2006, in the House of Commons.

Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill

Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill. Programme motion (No 3) for proceedings on Lords amendments and subsequent stages. Agreed to on question (formal). Consideration of Lords amendments. Lords amendments considered and agreed to, the Commons being willing to waive their privileges in respect of Lords amendment 19. Consequential amendment (a) disagreed to on division (210 to 298).

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
451 c733-64 
Session
2005-06
Department
Cabinet Office
Legislative stage
Lords amendments
Procedure
Programme motions
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill. Lords amendments.
Thursday, 2 November 2006
Bills
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 451 c734 (Link to this contribution) I inform the House that privilege is involved in Lords amendment No. 19. If the House agrees to the ...
Pat McFadden | 451 c735 (Link to this contribution) With the leave of the House, Madam Deputy Speaker. I do not want to detain the House on a Lords ame...
Show all contributions (89)
Pat McFadden | 451 c736-7 (Link to this contribution) This group of amendments concerns the type of provision that can be made by orders under clauses 1 a...
Pat McFadden | 451 c735 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
David Heath | 451 c734-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend says that it is not, but it is. It is a genuine pleasure. He described the Bill in it...
Lord Redwood | 451 c735 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Lords amendment. The Bill began as a sledgehammer to miss the nuts of over-regulation....
Pat McFadden | 451 c734 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment. The amendment makes exp...
David Heath | 451 c734 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to return to the Bill—
Pat McFadden | 451 c740 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Speaker | 451 c741 (Link to this contribution) With this, we may discuss Lords amendments Nos. 8, 10 to 13, 20 to 25, 28, 36 and 46.
Pat McFadden | 451 c741 (Link to this contribution) This matter was the subject of considerable discussion both here and in the other place. The Delegat...
Lord Redwood | 451 c739-40 (Link to this contribution) What worries me about the amendment is that it requires us to trust Ministers. I suspect that we can...
Rob Marris | 451 c740 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman could give the House some examples of which regulations the powers ...
Lord Redwood | 451 c740 (Link to this contribution) I think that that would stray rather far from the amendment. However, my party advanced a policy pac...
Pat McFadden | 451 c740 (Link to this contribution) With the leave of the House, Madam Deputy Speaker. Many facts and figures are cited in this area, s...
Andrew Turner | 451 c738 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that it would. The Minister did say that other Departments were drawing up lists of amendm...
David Heath | 451 c738-9 (Link to this contribution) The notion that the Minister cannot speak to amendments in the Lords that were tabled by a Minister ...
Rob Marris | 451 c738 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the clarification in the amendments. The extract from ““Halsbury’s Laws”” and the maxim th...
Pat McFadden | 451 c745 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Speaker | 451 c745 (Link to this contribution) With this we may discuss consequential amendment (a).
Lord Redwood | 451 c745 (Link to this contribution) Many hon. Members, including myself, are pleased that the Government have listened both to the other...
Pat McFadden | 451 c745 (Link to this contribution) I accept that. As I said, hon. Members on both sides of the House have acknowledged that there is a ...
Pat McFadden | 451 c745 (Link to this contribution) I will relay the hon. Gentleman’s request for more and longer Home Office legislation to the Home Se...
Pat McFadden | 451 c747-8 (Link to this contribution) I ask the House to agree with the Lords in their amendment No. 9 but to reject the Liberal Democrats...
David Heath | 451 c746-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. That is why it is so perverse of the Government here and now...
Pete Wishart | 451 c746 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is the view of the Scottish Parliament that all of the Scotlan...
David Heath | 451 c746 (Link to this contribution) One of our principal concerns about the Bill centres on the absence of prescription, either by direc...
Andrew Turner | 451 c741 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief. The Government’s acceptance of the Lords amendments—and especially of amendment No...
Andrew Miller | 451 c741 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) said that my hon. Friend the Minister was a breat...
David Heath | 451 c741-2 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Andrew Miller) that there is a need to r...
Greg Knight | 451 c742-3 (Link to this contribution) On this issue, I find myself nearer to Somerton and Frome than to Ellesmere Port. I have always take...
David Heath | 451 c745 (Link to this contribution) I understand that argument entirely, but most Law Commission recommendations—although not all of the...
Pat McFadden | 451 c744 (Link to this contribution) With leave of the House, I shall respond to the points raised. To some extent, this debate illustrat...
David Heath | 451 c743 (Link to this contribution) I believe that I am right in saying that one of the areas being explored by colleagues with Minister...
Lord Redwood | 451 c743 (Link to this contribution) I have sympathy with the points made by the hon. Members for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Andrew Mille...
Rob Marris | 451 c744 (Link to this contribution) Lords amendment No. 13 refers to some of the Bill’s powers being used for legislation that merely co...
Lord Redwood | 451 c743-4 (Link to this contribution) I encourage all those who are making such deliberations. That is extremely good news, but I hope tha...
David Heath | 451 c752 (Link to this contribution) Does not the hon. Gentleman understand that when the only protection that Parliament has from the Ex...
Rob Marris | 451 c752 (Link to this contribution) That would be the case were I to accept the term, ““only protection””, but in this context I do not....
Rob Marris | 451 c752 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. It is a venerable case, and it is the starting point for administrative accountability and j...
Pete Wishart | 451 c752-3 (Link to this contribution) I rise to express my deep concern and disappointment about amendment No. 9. I want to ask the Minist...
Lord Redwood | 451 c753-4 (Link to this contribution) I have some sympathy with both sides in this debate. It is absolutely right that items of constituti...
David Howarth | 451 c752 (Link to this contribution) To approach the same point from a different angle, does the hon. Gentleman accept that the purpose o...
Rob Marris | 451 c752 (Link to this contribution) Again, I am afraid that I do not accept the hon. Gentleman’s proposition that his amendment would, e...
Lord Redwood | 451 c754 (Link to this contribution) That is right, and it may well bring me down on the side of supporting amendment (a). However, it re...
Greg Knight | 451 c754 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that under amendment (a) the only involvement of the courts would be...
Pat McFadden | 451 c748 (Link to this contribution) I want to make some progress. These are not matters of certainty; in our system, which is without a...
David Howarth | 451 c748 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for giving way. He says that it would be a question of a court passing judgment...
Pat McFadden | 451 c748 (Link to this contribution) Of course, the Minister’s judgment is debated by Parliament as part of the process in the Bill. His ...
Lord Redwood | 451 c749 (Link to this contribution) When I first came into the House, there was a doctrine that not only did any item of constitutional ...
David Howarth | 451 c749-51 (Link to this contribution) The Bill has been like a time bomb ticking away in both Chambers of Parliament. Slowly, mainly in th...
Rob Marris | 451 c751-2 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to cross swords with such an eminent legal lecturer, professor or whatever as the hon. Me...
Lord Redwood | 451 c737 (Link to this contribution) Could it be that because we rarely receive an answer to a question and we are not allowed to meet ve...
Andrew Turner | 451 c737 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend’s experience of these matters is much greater than mine, but I feel that what w...
Andrew Turner | 451 c737 (Link to this contribution) Or, indeed, ““The West Wing””. As an outsider, I feel that I should first welcome the amendments in...
Greg Knight | 451 c738 (Link to this contribution) While my hon. Friend’s point about the big changes that have been made to the Bill is accurate, shou...
Andrew Turner | 451 c737 (Link to this contribution) Coming to the Bill at this stage is rather like entering a convention of people who have watched all...
Andrew Miller | 451 c754 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that an appropriate check on ministerial abuse should be establi...
Pat McFadden | 451 c762 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to make promises about parliamentary time. My hon. Friend will be aware that that matter ...
Andrew Miller | 451 c761-2 (Link to this contribution) This issue has been bubbling around during the time my hon. Friend has been dealing with the Bill an...
Pat McFadden | 451 c761 (Link to this contribution) The amendments deal with an issue that is close to the heart of many right hon. and hon. Members who...
Speaker | 451 c761 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss Lords amendments Nos. 31 to 34.
Pat McFadden | 451 c761 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Pat McFadden | 451 c761 (Link to this contribution) By leave of the House, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I should like to clarify this issue for the right hon. Ge...
Lord Redwood | 451 c761 (Link to this contribution) As someone who would dearly love to see some taxes abolished, I accept the normal form for doing tha...
Pat McFadden | 451 c762 (Link to this contribution) Yes, that is correct. I meant that the amendment will allow Committees of either House to exercise t...
Pat McFadden | 451 c759 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Pat McFadden | 451 c755-6 (Link to this contribution) I really must continue. I believe that in respect of the presentation of the amendment, we have seen...
Pat McFadden | 451 c760 (Link to this contribution) We mentioned the matters covered by the amendments earlier, so I shall be brief. Clause 6 restricts ...
Speaker | 451 c759 (Link to this contribution) With this we may discuss Lords amendment No. 19.
Lord Redwood | 451 c754 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has come up with a very good idea. My idea was that the House authorities might l...
Pat McFadden | 451 c755 (Link to this contribution) I will endeavour to be brief in summing up the debate on a couple of key issues. First, as the hon. ...
Lord Redwood | 451 c760 (Link to this contribution) If the amendment were carried, would it still be possible under this accelerated procedure to abolis...
Pat McFadden | 451 c760 (Link to this contribution) I will come back to the right hon. Gentleman on that matter. The amendment addresses the unwanted c...
Lord Redwood | 451 c763-4 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pity that once again we do not have enough time to have a civilised, sensible debate a...
David Heath | 451 c763 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that response, but the Government would have had considerably more...
Pat McFadden | 451 c762 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is being a trifle unfair. Does not he accept that giving the Committees a statuto...
David Heath | 451 c762 (Link to this contribution) The word ““veto”” is not entirely appropriate in this case. It is a parliamentary caveat, which enab...
Andrew Turner | 451 c762 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister gave way to the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Andrew Miller), he sa...
Andrew Turner | 451 c754-5 (Link to this contribution) I have listened with great care to the arguments that have been advanced. Amendment No. 9 is of cour...
Speaker | 451 c736 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to consider Lords amendments Nos. 3 to 6, 14 to 17, 26, 27 and 29.
Pat McFadden | 451 c749 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman touches on something important: these things are not codified and they are ...
David Howarth | 451 c751 (Link to this contribution) It is an important question whether Ministers should have the power to change the law, as opposed to...
Lord Redwood | 451 c751 (Link to this contribution) I agree up to a point with the hon. Gentleman. Although it is obviously imperative that all Minister...
David Heath | 451 c760-1 (Link to this contribution) I welcome Lords amendment No. 18. It makes precisely the point that we made in Committee. I apologis...
Subjects
Bureaucracy Devolution Committees Constitutional and administrative law Legislative process Exemptions Legislative competence Functions Legislation Law Commission Powers Parliamentary scrutiny Regulation Taxation Statutory instruments
Legislation
Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill 2005-06
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk