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Debate on bill on Thursday, 28 June 2007, in the House of Commons, led by Baroness Merron. The answering member was Stephen Hammond.

Concessionary Bus Travel Bill [Lords]

Concessionary Bus Travel Bill (HL). Report stage. New clause 3 debated and negatived on division (157 votes to 257). Other amendments debated and negatived. Third reading debate. Agreed to on question, and Bill passed with amendments.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
462 c510-64 
Session
2006-07
Department
Department for Transport
Legislative stage
Third reading
Report stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lee Scott | 462 c540 (Link to this contribution) Can my hon. Friend confirm that the provisions would include children suffering from autism, and the...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c540-1 (Link to this contribution) No, that is not the intention. The amendment relates to people with mental health problems. It is cl...
Show all contributions (117)
David TC Davies | 462 c541 (Link to this contribution) I am dealing with one such case in my constituency, in which a gentleman has had his driving licence...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c541 (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that those people would lose that right, because holding a driving licence would...
Charles Walker | 462 c541-2 (Link to this contribution) I was interested to hear what my hon. Friend said about what is defined as a local service. I want t...
Paul Rowen | 462 c542 (Link to this contribution) The three amendments tabled by the hon. Member for Wimbledon (Stephen Hammond) cover some of the iss...
David TC Davies | 462 c542 (Link to this contribution) I have worked with mentally ill people in various capacities, and fully understand what the hon. Gen...
Paul Rowen | 462 c542 (Link to this contribution) I totally agree, and that is why I welcomed the letter from the Minister and the ongoing discussions...
Paul Rowen | 462 c543 (Link to this contribution) I agree. Mental health is one of the big unsung issues that we as a country and this House need to a...
David Leslie Taylor | 462 c542-3 (Link to this contribution) Was the hon. Gentleman not rather shocked by the unsubstantiated assertion that a substantial propor...
Baroness Merron | 462 c533-4 (Link to this contribution) A number of hon. Members asked about how we will deal with hot spots, as they are called, where ther...
Lord Beith | 462 c534 (Link to this contribution) What is delaying the Minister? Assuming that she stays in her job, she has got until next spring to ...
Jim Cousins | 462 c533 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is about to move on to a topic that has engaged several hon. Members in the debate, b...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c538 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 8, page 1, line 19, at end insert—
Speaker | 462 c538-9 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 6, page 2, line 14, at end...
Baroness Merron | 462 c534-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Gentleman for offering me a way out should success not be mine. Our priority ...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c535 (Link to this contribution) As the Minister said, in Committee we discussed funding for the Bill at great length, because it is ...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c540 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes a good point. It is a standard definition that has been used before, and ...
Greg Knight | 462 c540 (Link to this contribution) Is the wording of amendment No. 6 correct? Proposed new section 4A(e) seeks to include in the defini...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c539-40 (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 8 seeks to clarify the definition of services on which concessionary journeys can be t...
Paul Rowen | 462 c552 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 4, page 13, line 18, at end insert—
Stephen Hammond | 462 c551-2 (Link to this contribution) I was surprised to hear at the beginning of the Minister’s remarks that there is a new principle in ...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c554 (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 7, which stands in my name and those of my hon. Friends, makes a small yet important c...
John McDonnell | 462 c554 (Link to this contribution) Because the London scheme is so much in advance of those outside London, central Government and some...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c554 (Link to this contribution) Just once, because I only have a short time.
John McDonnell | 462 c554 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Paul Rowen | 462 c552-3 (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 4 deals with Transport for London charges for permits and seeks to change the reserve ...
Speaker | 462 c552 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment No. 7, page 13, line 18, at end add— ‘(7) After...
Paul Rowen | 462 c554 (Link to this contribution) I do not represent a London seat, but my seat is in Greater Manchester. Will the hon. Gentleman poin...
John McDonnell | 462 c553-4 (Link to this contribution) I seem to have spent half my adult life defending the London concessionary scheme. I pay tribute to ...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c543 (Link to this contribution) I understand why the hon. Gentleman has reservations about amendment No. 6, but I am sure that he ag...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c549-50 (Link to this contribution) These are technical, probing amendments, and I am really just looking for some reassurance from the ...
Speaker | 462 c549 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 12, page 11, line 1, leave ...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c549 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 11, page 10, line 39, leave out subsection (3).
Stephen Hammond | 462 c546 (Link to this contribution) I was delighted to hear at the outset of the Minister’s speech that great minds think alike. There i...
Baroness Merron | 462 c545-6 (Link to this contribution) To assist the hon. Gentleman, I refer him to the order that I have already mentioned. Bus operators ...
Charles Walker | 462 c545 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is making rapid progress, but may I take her back to the beginning of her speech? Can I...
Baroness Merron | 462 c543-5 (Link to this contribution) This is a large group of amendments and they span a number of important issues. I shall start with a...
Paul Rowen | 462 c543 (Link to this contribution) I accept that. I hope that part of the outcome of the debate this afternoon will be that the definit...
Baroness Merron | 462 c550-1 (Link to this contribution) All three amendments aim to change provisions in the Bill relating to the Secretary of State’s power...
Paul Rowen | 462 c563-4 (Link to this contribution) Like the hon. Members for Wimbledon (Stephen Hammond) and for Edinburgh, North and Leith (Mark Lazar...
Mark Lazarowicz | 462 c562-3 (Link to this contribution) As the Minister noted earlier, the Bill applies only to England and Wales. I have no objection to th...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c555-6 (Link to this contribution) That may be so, but it is equally true that no one is currently proposing that the scheme should be ...
John McDonnell | 462 c554 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that in the past several boroughs have put forward proposals to r...
Baroness Merron | 462 c560-1 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. We had an interesting debate on Report, an...
Paul Rowen | 462 c557-8 (Link to this contribution) I have listened to the Minister’s arguments, but on this occasion, I still wish to press the amendme...
Baroness Merron | 462 c557 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a constructive point that I am sure Opposition Members will wish to consider. ...
John McDonnell | 462 c557 (Link to this contribution) There may have been concerns raised by individual boroughs, but none of them has gone to the elector...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c562 (Link to this contribution) From the outset, the official Opposition have made clear our wholehearted support for the principle ...
Baroness Merron | 462 c561-2 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend is aware, the Bill extends off-peak concessionary travel from local to national ar...
Mark Lazarowicz | 462 c561 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend says that there was detailed consideration on Report and in Committee, but there did ...
Speaker | 462 c510 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 14, in clause 9 page 7, lin...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c510 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Philip Davies | 462 c510 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that this is not just about the overall amount of money that is in place b...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c510 (Link to this contribution) There was no dissent in the House on Second Reading or in Committee as to the intent of the Bill. Th...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c510-1 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good and pertinent point. I will talk about that in more depth in a moment. ...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c518 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady knows that local authorities have indicated that the £350 million that the Government ...
Baroness Merron | 462 c518 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in the hon. Gentleman’s reference to the Government funding of the statutory scheme....
Stephen Hammond | 462 c518 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is right: that is a matter for local authorities. I was describing the funding for the ...
Lee Scott | 462 c518 (Link to this contribution) Does not new clause 3 do exactly what the Minister was referring to? No one can say whether £1 billi...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c518 (Link to this contribution) Well, they have. I gave examples of two of them earlier, and am happy to do the same for the other 1...
Baroness Merron | 462 c518 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman clarify whether he is referring to funding for the statutory scheme or fundi...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c519 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting intervention—but he is really just rephrasing his previous i...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c518-9 (Link to this contribution) Indeed it would. I hope that after some reflection, the Minister will see the intent, significance a...
Fraser Kemp | 462 c519 (Link to this contribution) I realise that the hon. Gentleman would not have been tempted by my earlier intervention in relation...
Angela Watkinson | 462 c515 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that one possible way of reducing the cost of these schemes would be for l...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c515-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point. Following the discussions in Committee, I hope that when the Gove...
David TC Davies | 462 c516-7 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that over the years in which members of the Opposition were in government,...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c517 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his eloquent support for my new clause.
Philip Davies | 462 c517 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a typically good case for the new clause, which I support wholeheartedly. D...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c517 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is correct. As I pointed out earlier, there is huge concern among local authorities a...
Jim Cousins | 462 c517 (Link to this contribution) In response to the interventions from the hon. Members for Monmouth (David T.C. Davies) and for Ship...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c517 (Link to this contribution) That may be so, but it does not lead us anywhere unless the formula produces the correct amount of m...
David TC Davies | 462 c517 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the Local Government Association, under the leadership of various dif...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c517-8 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend says, what on earth is there to oppose about that? We shall see whether the Minist...
Jim Cousins | 462 c514 (Link to this contribution) So we wait two years and then—
Stephen Hammond | 462 c513-4 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman makes a good point, which was explored in Committee. Indeed, that consequen...
Jim Cousins | 462 c514 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has set out the position in the former metropolitan county of Tyne and Wear. I ho...
Lord Beith | 462 c513 (Link to this contribution) While the hon. Gentleman is in the north-east, may I refer him to the problem of border areas? The G...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c515 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman wishes to lead me down an interesting road, but I shall not pursue him. Even the ...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c514-5 (Link to this contribution) I am bound to disagree with the hon. Gentleman. When he hears the rest of my remarks, he will realis...
Fraser Kemp | 462 c515 (Link to this contribution) Let us suppose that the hon. Gentleman’s new clause is accepted, and that in two years’ time we disc...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c514 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman would let me finish, I can explain. After that period, we can ascertain where ...
Jim Cousins | 462 c514 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for my sedentary interjection. I shall now make the same point in a more proper fashion....
David TC Davies | 462 c511 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises an important and pertinent issue. Is he aware that in Monmouthshire, where we ...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c511 (Link to this contribution) Indeed I do. Again, I shall come to that point shortly. The new clause would ensure that the situati...
Angela Watkinson | 462 c511 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the difficulties for London local authorities is being able to...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c513 (Link to this contribution) It is a temptation that I can resist. For the 2006 scheme, only one local authority out of the 15 b...
Lee Scott | 462 c512 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that however noble a cause may be, this Government have on many occasions ...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c512 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an excellent point—I intend to make exactly the same one later. From my experi...
Celia Barlow | 462 c512 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman refers to my local authority of Brighton and Hove. May I mention an additional co...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c512 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that point. When we phoned the local authority back to check whet...
Baroness Merron | 462 c532-3 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps this is an appropriate point at which to remind ourselves that the Bill covers off-peak conc...
Lord Beith | 462 c532 (Link to this contribution) One thing that the formula cannot do is recognise that there are some authorities that will still ha...
Baroness Merron | 462 c531-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s encouragement. For the benefit of hon. Members who did not p...
David TC Davies | 462 c531 (Link to this contribution) The main point that we were making was not so much about the amount of money, although that is clear...
Baroness Merron | 462 c531 (Link to this contribution) I can assure the hon. Gentleman that he made his point perfectly clear. Travel concession authoritie...
Charles Walker | 462 c531 (Link to this contribution) On reflection, I was rather inarticulate in expressing my concerns. Many bus routes start at Waltham...
Baroness Merron | 462 c530-1 (Link to this contribution) We return once more to this important Bill, and in particular to the issue of funding for local auth...
David TC Davies | 462 c528-30 (Link to this contribution) I have a slight sense of déjà vu because some years ago, perhaps even before Ministers had thought a...
Lord Beith | 462 c527-8 (Link to this contribution) When the Prime Minister, in his then capacity as Chancellor, announced that there was to be a nation...
Charles Walker | 462 c526-7 (Link to this contribution) I have followed the debate with great interest. My postbag, like that of many Members of the House, ...
Paul Rowen | 462 c525-6 (Link to this contribution) The Liberal Democrats welcome the Bill. We believe it will go a long way towards dealing with social...
Jim Cousins | 462 c523-4 (Link to this contribution) I remind the hon. Gentleman of the very wise words of Adam Smith. He was an honest Scotsman, and thi...
Paul Rowen | 462 c521 (Link to this contribution) I am following the hon. Gentleman’s point closely. Does he agree that there is an additional problem...
Jim Cousins | 462 c521 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely acknowledge that. My hon. Friend draws attention to a very important point. In the form...
David TC Davies | 462 c523 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the privatisation of the bus companies might prevent the problem...
Jim Cousins | 462 c522-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention. It draws attention to two significant things. First, the nation...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c520 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that such studies have been undertaken, but I suggest that if my hon. Friend’s researc...
David TC Davies | 462 c519-20 (Link to this contribution) Has anyone done any studies of the local authorities that have been underfunded and those that have ...
Fraser Kemp | 462 c521 (Link to this contribution) On the point about the density of bus networks, Tyne and Wear is often regarded as an urban area, bu...
Jim Cousins | 462 c520-1 (Link to this contribution) This is clearly an excellent Bill that commands the support of the whole House. I hope that it will ...
Baroness Merron | 462 c556-7 (Link to this contribution) There is a sense of déjà vu about the debate as we discuss again the London reserve free travel sche...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c514 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. If the hon. Gentleman votes for the new clause, he will have a solution. It is that the Gove...
Stephen Hammond | 462 c512 (Link to this contribution) Indeed I do. The implementation of smartcards across the country would have that impact, as well as ...
Subjects
Disability Bus services Buses Concessions Fares Finance Greater London Mental illness Older people Tourism Rural areas
Legislation
Concessionary Bus Travel Bill (HL) 2006-07
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk