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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Monday, 2 July 2007, in the House of Lords.

UK Borders Bill

UK Borders Bill. Lords Committee stage first day. Clauses 1, 2, 3 and 4 agreed to. Grand Committee held in the Moses Room.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
693 c31-90GC 
Session
2006-07
Department
Home Office
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 693 c44GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment. Clause 1 states that a person may be a designated immigration officer only ...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 693 c44-5GC (Link to this contribution) The first people that many coming to this country meet will be the immigration officers. What sort o...
Show all contributions (114)
Lord Avebury | 693 c51-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 4: 4: Clause 1, page 1, line 11, at end insert— ““( ) The codes of practice is...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c50GC (Link to this contribution) I will reflect on the noble Lord’s last point. I do not believe that the IPCC could have jurisdictio...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 693 c49GC (Link to this contribution) I wish that I could fill in the necessary information but I am afraid that I cannot; I am simply not...
Lord Avebury | 693 c64-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 7: 7: Clause 3, page 2, line 28, leave out ““51 weeks”” and insert ““six month...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c69-72GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 13: 13: After Clause 3, insert the following new Clause— ““Immigration Service...
Lord Avebury | 693 c69GC (Link to this contribution) I am not going to prolong this discussion, as I am sure that it could be best dealt with offline. Ho...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c78-9GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I can assist. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, is trying to behave perfectly prope...
Duke of Montrose | 693 c85GC (Link to this contribution) I should like to clarify something. The Minister referred to the problem of applying Section 11 to N...
Viscount Simon | 693 c90GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned until Thursday.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c90GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Thursday at 2 pm.
Viscount Allenby of Megiddo | 693 c31GC (Link to this contribution) If there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, the Committee will adjourn as soon as th...
Lord Dholakia | 693 c42GC (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to support the noble Baroness’s amendment. I can think of hardly any Bill on which th...
Lord Avebury | 693 c41GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw Amendment No. 2. Amendment No. 2, as an amendment to Amendment No. 1, by le...
Earl of Listowel | 693 c43GC (Link to this contribution) I strongly support the amendment in that it provides reassurance that these powers will be used with...
Lord Hylton | 693 c44GC (Link to this contribution) As a supplementary to the noble Baroness’s question, have the Government of the Republic of Ireland ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c37-8GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, we have consulted ACPO in the past. We know that it was uncertain about the benefits of a singl...
Earl of Listowel | 693 c35-6GC (Link to this contribution) I have listened to this debate with interest and have been put in mind of a report on Frontex, the E...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c39GC (Link to this contribution) I shall try to be as helpful as I can on this. No doubt a lot of questions will be asked not only to...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c39GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Avebury, was perfectly in order to speak at that point, but he cannot withdraw ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c49GC (Link to this contribution) I would be very surprised if staff in the service were not apprised of human rights issues. They are...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c48GC (Link to this contribution) The BIA runs language training for immigration officers. Immigration officers are encouraged to spea...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c51GC (Link to this contribution) That is helpful. It may resolve some of the remaining concerns among Members of the Committee about ...
Lord Dholakia | 693 c50GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister’s encouraging news about accountability. However, the point at issue—...
Lord Hylton | 693 c59GC (Link to this contribution) If I understood the Minister correctly, he was arguing that it would be too onerous and there would ...
Lord Avebury | 693 c57GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister mentioned the comprehensive standard operating procedures which he said had been publis...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c58GC (Link to this contribution) Without having the opportunity of talking to my Scottish colleagues on this, my guess is that they t...
Lord Avebury | 693 c62-3GC (Link to this contribution) I was quoting from what the Minister said in another place, but it is quite possible that that was w...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c62GC (Link to this contribution) First, may I ask a very simple question of the noble Lord? Is it his intention to refer in the amend...
Viscount Bridgeman | 693 c60GC (Link to this contribution) We on these Benches are pleased to be of assistance to the Government and to my friend—in a non-parl...
Lord Avebury | 693 c62GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 5: 5: After Clause 1, insert the following new Clause— ““Complaints (1) The Se...
Lord Avebury | 693 c67GC (Link to this contribution) Let me see whether I understood the Minister correctly. The provisions regarding the penalties for a...
Lord Avebury | 693 c67-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. In that case, we face a period in which these penalties will not appl...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c66-7GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord’s proposal to limit the maximum period of imprisonment for an offence committed under...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c63-4GC (Link to this contribution) I can help the noble Lord here. It was intended that the consultation should start earlier and, when...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c76-8GC (Link to this contribution) Again, in general terms, that is a valid point. I take the admonition. Secondly, in response to its...
Lord Avebury | 693 c75GC (Link to this contribution) This is the second time that we have had reference to a document which has been placed in the Librar...
Earl of Listowel | 693 c72-4GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment. It is important that those children receive the protection that it proposes...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c78GC (Link to this contribution) I was speaking principally for the convenience of noble Lords because I thought it would help to mov...
Lord Avebury | 693 c79GC (Link to this contribution) I am in the Committee’s hands in this regard.
Lord Avebury | 693 c79-83GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may be permitted to speak to my amendment to the government amendment at this stage. I am ...
Earl of Listowel | 693 c86GC (Link to this contribution) Might the Minister be prepared to meet outside the Committee, before Report, to look at the importan...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c90GC (Link to this contribution) No, the amendment was spoken to. It is moved only if it is in a separate place in the list. The Mini...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c89GC (Link to this contribution) I understand that the noble Lord has not had an opportunity to move it; he was speaking to it. We al...
Viscount Simon | 693 c86GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the Minister, but I should advise the Committee that Grand Committees can si...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c31-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1: 1: Before Clause 1, insert the following new Clause— ““Establishment of UK ...
Lord Hylton | 693 c35GC (Link to this contribution) I welcome the concept behind these two amendments, particularly because it would overcome some of th...
Lord Avebury | 693 c33-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 1, Amendment No. 2: 2: Before Clause 1, leave out lines 5 ...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c41GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw Amendment No. 1. Amendment No. 1, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 1 [Designate...
Lord Hylton | 693 c42-3GC (Link to this contribution) I support Amendment No. 3 and point out that it concerns one of the many points raised by the Joint ...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c39-40GC (Link to this contribution) I repeat my thanks to noble Lords who have taken part in this short debate. The noble Lord, Lord Hyl...
Lord Dholakia | 693 c37GC (Link to this contribution) Has the Minister taken into account the views of the Association of Chief Police Officers or has a c...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 693 c35GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment of my noble friend Lady Anelay. It seems to me very important that the Gover...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c45-8GC (Link to this contribution) This has been a very useful and wide-ranging debate. It has raised some questions that I shall endea...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 693 c48GC (Link to this contribution) How do the Government plan to deal with the language question?
Lord Avebury | 693 c45GC (Link to this contribution) There is only one thing that I feel I must add to what has already been said. Considering the debate...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 693 c55GC (Link to this contribution) When the human rights committee discussed this matter—I have not read the report; I should have it i...
Lord Judd | 693 c54GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Amendment No. 6 and in doing so should draw the Committee’s attention to the fact t...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c50-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for agreeing to do that. We have had some very helpful responses from ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c49-50GC (Link to this contribution) I will take that point away and will happily write to the noble Earl if he wishes that information t...
Earl of Listowel | 693 c49GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister for his comprehensive response on child protection. I should be g...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c58-9GC (Link to this contribution) I was being collegiate in terms of this debate. I would not seek to embarrass the noble Viscount in ...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c58GC (Link to this contribution) May I clarify matters? My noble friend Lord Bridgeman is very firmly on these Benches. I am glad to ...
Lord Hylton | 693 c55GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Judd, that, particularly when one is dealing with vulnerable peopl...
Viscount Bridgeman | 693 c55-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am glad that the noble Lords, Lord Judd and Lord Avebury, have tabled the amendments and shall be ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c57-8GC (Link to this contribution) As I explained, they have been placed in the Libraries of both Houses. They are drafts and are there...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c63GC (Link to this contribution) That is helpful. It is our view that these amendments are unnecessary. We intend that the oversight ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c60GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Viscount gets me to put on the record the fact that the procedures will not be directly ap...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c59GC (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that there will be about 1,000 designated officers. On the noble Lord’s point ab...
Lord Judd | 693 c59-60GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Minister for what he said. We must all take seriously the news that the st...
Lord Avebury | 693 c61-2GC (Link to this contribution) Exactly. I would hope that the chief inspector would have that role and that there would be no limit...
Lord Avebury | 693 c60-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all those who have taken part in the debate on this amendment, particularly to the ...
Lord Hylton | 693 c66GC (Link to this contribution) It seems to me that this is yet another example of the conscious or unconscious ratcheting up of sen...
Lord Tordoff | 693 c64GC (Link to this contribution) The Statement has begun on the Floor of the House, so I shall adjourn the Committee until it is comp...
Lord Avebury | 693 c64GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister for that information. I am happy to withdraw the amendment but it...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c74-5GC (Link to this contribution) I was thinking that perhaps it would be better for constructive debate if noble Lords spoke to their...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c69GC (Link to this contribution) All three agencies exercise coercive powers. The noble Lord understands that and the rest of the Com...
Lord Avebury | 693 c78GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister has not heard what I am going to say about the amendments, so I cannot very well see ho...
Lord Hylton | 693 c79GC (Link to this contribution) Before we go any further, perhaps I could recall for the Committee’s benefit that these issues were ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c85GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord was doing quite well until that point.
Lord Avebury | 693 c89GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that he is prepared to engage in further discussions with noble Lords between now ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c86-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that cut-off point. We have been discussing this one for just over an hour, and I ...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c41-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 3: 3: Clause 1, page 1, line 11, at end insert— ““(4) The Secretary of State s...
Lord Judd | 693 c43GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that my noble friend will be able to take seriously the case put forward in this amendment. I...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c36-7GC (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, for putting forward her amendment and to...
Earl of Listowel | 693 c39GC (Link to this contribution) I was very pleased to hear this debate about secondment and cross-transfer of staff. The special adv...
Lord Avebury | 693 c38-9GC (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether it is the right protocol for me to withdraw my amendment before the noble Baro...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c38GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who took part in this short debate. It looks as though the noble Lo...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 693 c49GC (Link to this contribution) I was very grateful for what the noble Lord said about the position in relation to the Scottish Exec...
Lord Avebury | 693 c49GC (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Baroness say what is the equivalent power in Scotland to the Police and Criminal Evide...
Lord Judd | 693 c48GC (Link to this contribution) Will my noble friend say a word about how the understanding of the human rights of those involved wi...
Earl of Listowel | 693 c45GC (Link to this contribution) It is widely acknowledged that the best form of training is continual professional development—in pa...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c51GC (Link to this contribution) I cannot say whether I shall have that information by Report, but I take the point made by the noble...
Lord Judd | 693 c55GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for that important point. I assure her that we gave some time to consider...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c56-7GC (Link to this contribution) I am, as ever, grateful to Members of the Committee who raised these important issues. I am particul...
Duke of Montrose | 693 c58GC (Link to this contribution) My great apologies for being very late for the Committee—there is a certain amount of chaos at Glasg...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c61GC (Link to this contribution) What I said—to be clear for the record—was that I thought that there would be included some consider...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c68GC (Link to this contribution) It is important that the penalty is the same regardless of whether the description of events varies ...
Lord Avebury | 693 c63GC (Link to this contribution) When the Minister said that the question of extending the IPCC’s remit would be put out to public co...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c75GC (Link to this contribution) I am entirely sympathetic to the noble Lord’s point. I will endeavour to ensure that copies of docum...
Lord Judd | 693 c75-6GC (Link to this contribution) I do not want to increase my noble friend’s difficulties in any way. He is expressing genuine concer...
Lord Avebury | 693 c68-9GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I explained myself fully. In the old days, common assault was punishable by six ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c78GC (Link to this contribution) Well, I was referring to my understanding of the amendments. If the noble Lord wants to speak to tho...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c79GC (Link to this contribution) I tried to enable the noble Lord to move his amendments previously, because I thought that that migh...
Lord Hylton | 693 c86GC (Link to this contribution) I offer a suggestion on Amendment No. 13 for consideration by the Government. Would the amendment be...
Lord Judd | 693 c83-4GC (Link to this contribution) When the Joint Committee on Human Rights considered these issues, we heard far too much distressing ...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 693 c84-5GC (Link to this contribution) I intervene very briefly, as time is not on our side. There is an opportunity here for a reversal of...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 693 c85GC (Link to this contribution) The Liberal Democrat amendment is the only one that mentions the United Nations Convention on the Ri...
Lord Avebury | 693 c89GC (Link to this contribution) It is most unsatisfactory that I should be cut short at this point. There are things that I have to ...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c89GC (Link to this contribution) I am aware of the time: we have two minutes. I wonder whether the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, might be...
Subjects
Complaints Children Detainees Crimes against the person Borders Families Immigration Languages Discrimination Immigration officers Police Scotland Sentencing Training
Legislation
UK Borders Bill 2006-07
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk