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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Thursday, 5 July 2007, in the House of Lords.

UK Borders Bill

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
693 c125-82GC 
Session
2006-07
Department
Home Office
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c180GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Judd, is about to withdraw his amendment. In that case, perhaps ...
Lord Judd | 693 c182GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Show all contributions (132)
Lord Avebury | 693 c178-9GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 8 provides a link between the information contained on the document and the information that ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c177GC (Link to this contribution) Indeed, that is the case. It must be right. I tend to think that we could do much more about human t...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c172GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 21: 21: Clause 7, page 5, line 23, leave out ““In particular,”” The noble Bar...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c169-70GC (Link to this contribution) We think that the amendment is misconceived because UKvisas will not issue biometric immigration doc...
Viscount Allenby of Megiddo | 693 c166GC (Link to this contribution) Before calling Amendment No. 16, I advise the Committee that, if this amendment were to be agreed to...
Lord Avebury | 693 c167-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 20A: 20A: Clause 5, page 4, line 38, at end insert— ““( ) The Secretary of Sta...
Lord Judd | 693 c150GC (Link to this contribution) I understand the commitment of my noble friend on these issues. He does not have to convince me. It ...
Lord Judd | 693 c150GC (Link to this contribution) I would argue that the employer should require exactly the same information as he requires from anyb...
Lord Avebury | 693 c158-60GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure that we all have a difficulty with the point raised in Amendment No. 15, which relates to ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c141GC (Link to this contribution) Let me try to put this on a rational basis. That is not the purpose of the BID. The BID is designed ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c140GC (Link to this contribution) Members of the Committee can get into a lather on this issue and I do not want that to colour our de...
Lord Avebury | 693 c134GC (Link to this contribution) I cannot have been listening very closely. I do not remember him doing so, but I will read Hansard a...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c146-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to noble Lords for their contributions to a lively and stimulating debate. I well unde...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c182GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until next Thursday at 2 pm.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c182GC (Link to this contribution) To conclude, the code that is issued makes it clear that any employee should be checked, irrespectiv...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c182GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 23A: 23A: Clause 8, page 5, line 38, leave out from ““information”” to end of ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c179-80GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords for their contributions, and to my noble friend Lord Judd for start...
Lord Judd | 693 c177GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 23: 23: Clause 8, page 5, line 38, leave out subsection (2) The noble Lord sa...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c174-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 21A: 21A: Clause 7, page 5, line 33, at end insert— ““(3) The regulations may ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c170-1GC (Link to this contribution) I thought that I had dealt with the short-term visitor issue, which the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, rai...
Lord Avebury | 693 c172-3GC (Link to this contribution) The penalties provided in subsection (2) are already pretty drastic. I dread to think of what the Go...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c166GC (Link to this contribution) It is consistent with the position that we explained in another place. We are trying to ensure that ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c167GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 17A: 17A: Clause 5, page 4, line 19, leave out paragraphs (e) and (f) On Ques...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c155-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 15: 15: Clause 5, page 3, line 33, leave out paragraph (e) The noble Baroness...
Lord Avebury | 693 c155GC (Link to this contribution) By that time, however, it will be too late. If the regulation does not comply with my suggestion, we...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c155GC (Link to this contribution) It is worth reminding the Committee that the regulation-making power is the affirmative procedure. N...
Lord Avebury | 693 c151GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord, Lord Judd, finishes, the Minister has told us that normally a national insura...
Lord Avebury | 693 c154-5GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister’s response to the amendments, which would limit the scope of any of the paragraphs in C...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c153-4GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 14A would limit the non-biometric information recorded on or in the biometric immigrat...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c152GC (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to a rather different aspect of this matter. The noble Lord, Lord Avebury, referred ...
Lord Judd | 693 c148-9GC (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Minister’s response, and have several questions. First, was racial profiling seriously...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c149GC (Link to this contribution) I would have thought that would be a very sensible course of action for an employer, once we have in...
Lord Avebury | 693 c149GC (Link to this contribution) I wonder what the employer’s code of conduct will say about a job applicant who is clearly from a ra...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c150GC (Link to this contribution) Not necessarily. I cannot see that that will always be the case. The presence of a verifiable form o...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c164-5GC (Link to this contribution) This one always comes around. I remember a brief that I had five years ago. It was one of those occa...
Lord Hylton | 693 c164GC (Link to this contribution) The point is that it is not satisfactory. Parliament is not satisfied with thinking, which is subjec...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c163GC (Link to this contribution) Sorry. I am very keen to be as helpful as I can. I do not think that what I said was inconsistent wi...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c163GC (Link to this contribution) I think that is consistent with what I said. We want to reduce the number of documents that people h...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c161-2GC (Link to this contribution) It will not be the existing BID that is designated as a document; it will be the second generation t...
Lord Avebury | 693 c161GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister leaves the point, perhaps I may say what mystified me. If one can designate with...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c162GC (Link to this contribution) There are a couple of points there. We would be in a position to communicate directly with a BID hol...
Lord Hylton | 693 c160GC (Link to this contribution) I raise a point about Amendment No. 16 which I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, has not al...
Lord Avebury | 693 c163GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to repeat myself, but I should like to clarify the point at issue on the designation of B...
Lord Hylton | 693 c139-40GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, finishes his reply, I must say that the point he raised about a...
Lord Avebury | 693 c139GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Judd. I hope that the Minister will also take note of wha...
Earl of Listowel | 693 c142GC (Link to this contribution) In case there is further information forthcoming on this matter, it would be interesting for me to k...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c141-2GC (Link to this contribution) I will try to cap this one off, because we need to move on. It is not something that we can put in t...
Lord Avebury | 693 c133-4GC (Link to this contribution) It is remarkable that we have only a dozen people in this Grand Committee and two of them have been ...
Lord Selsdon | 693 c146GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the Minister could help me. I received a questionnaire the other day, which asked me to tick...
Lord Avebury | 693 c148GC (Link to this contribution) I am both surprised and gratified by what the Minister has said about the categories that are going ...
Lord Selsdon | 693 c142GC (Link to this contribution) I support the Minister on this issue. I declare an interest in that I have just tabled a Question fo...
Lord Dholakia | 693 c142GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister seems to be getting unnecessarily worked up about this matter—
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c142-3GC (Link to this contribution) I do not deny that we should reflect on practice. That is why we issued guidance: so that we can imp...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c129-32GC (Link to this contribution) I shall respond to the points made in this very important debate. I cannot resist commenting on the ...
Lord Dholakia | 693 c129GC (Link to this contribution) I do not intend to disturb the Minister later, but my noble friend Lord Avebury raised very importan...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 693 c132GC (Link to this contribution) There are clearly differences of opinion between the noble Lords on the Liberal Democrat Benches and...
Lord Avebury | 693 c125-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 13ZA: 13ZA: Clause 5, page 3, line 12, after ““person”” insert ““aged 16 or ov...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c128-9GC (Link to this contribution) I have a great deal of sympathy with this amendment, which is hardly surprising since it is virtuall...
Lord Judd | 693 c180GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure that we have all listened carefully—
Lord Judd | 693 c181GC (Link to this contribution) I have listened with great interest to the contributions by other Members of the Committee. The nobl...
Lord Avebury | 693 c175-6GC (Link to this contribution) We were very grateful for the Minister’s letter, in which he argued that recording biometrics helps ...
Lord Hylton | 693 c179GC (Link to this contribution) I am concerned about government Amendment No. 23A, in particular subparagraph (d) which, as far as I...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c179GC (Link to this contribution) I rise, unusually, to remark on the fact that we are approaching 6 pm, and I appreciate that the rul...
Lord Avebury | 693 c176-7GC (Link to this contribution) My point about age was that we now have arguments about whether a child is over or under the age of ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c171GC (Link to this contribution) Asylum seekers are issued with the ARC card, and we do not charge for that, so that is not a terribl...
Earl of Sandwich | 693 c171GC (Link to this contribution) As far as I understood the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, he was referring to asylum s...
Lord Avebury | 693 c171-2GC (Link to this contribution) We will all be grateful for the assurance that asylum seekers will not be charged and that the docum...
Lord Avebury | 693 c166GC (Link to this contribution) I am not altogether sure that I understood what the Minister said. He repeated what we have already ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c166-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 16A to 16B: 16A: Clause 5, page 4, line 4, at end insert ““connected with im...
Lord Avebury | 693 c151-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 14A: 14A: Clause 5, page 3, leave out line 32 and insert ““which may include t...
Lord Judd | 693 c151GC (Link to this contribution) I have to say to my noble friend—we use these expressions ““noble friend””, but we are actually pers...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c150GC (Link to this contribution) My son started part-time work a year and a half or so ago. His prospective employer asked him to pro...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c166GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Baroness for that. There are other amendments in the group, and I wi...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c165GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 15A: 15A: Clause 5, page 3, line 37, leave out paragraphs (g) and (h) The nob...
Lord Dholakia | 693 c163GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister was helpful, because in the earlier question on Clause 5(2)(e) my noble friend raised a...
Lord Avebury | 693 c162GC (Link to this contribution) What happens if someone does not notice that changes to the notification requirements have been adve...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c160GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for tabling her amendments. I am grateful, too, to the noble Lor...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c160GC (Link to this contribution) It might be helpful if I comment on that. The noble Lord, Lord Hylton, is right to raise that questi...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c139GC (Link to this contribution) I should clarify that. At present foreign nationals may in certain circumstances be charged for usin...
Lord Avebury | 693 c140GC (Link to this contribution) I was in the middle of my speech. I am grateful to noble Lords for their interventions because they ...
Lord Hylton | 693 c140GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister, who is not responsible for health matters, should not rely on the goodwill of health p...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c133GC (Link to this contribution) In his kind offer, the noble Lord referred to this as a proven science. I hope that the letter the G...
Lord Selsdon | 693 c133GC (Link to this contribution) Being the exception, I had not wanted to intervene, but the other day I found out that in 45 years, ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c133GC (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the noble Lord on being persistent in getting a free drink. I hesitate to say that Co...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c134GC (Link to this contribution) I thought that I had addressed that point right at the beginning.
Lord Avebury | 693 c134-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 13A: 13A: Clause 5, page 3, line 17, leave out sub-paragraph (ii) The noble L...
Lord Avebury | 693 c139GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that information. I am left with some questions, which have not be...
Lord Avebury | 693 c145GC (Link to this contribution) And Uganda, as the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, rightly reminds me—make it likely that people from those...
Lord Hylton | 693 c145GC (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister say whether it is envisaged that the roll-out will be by geographical area, which ...
Lord Hylton | 693 c148GC (Link to this contribution) It occurs to me that there may already be in this country quite large numbers of non-nationals who h...
Lord Dholakia | 693 c146GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is right; it is for the Minister to answer, but I think we are talking about the cat...
Lord Dholakia | 693 c142GC (Link to this contribution) Of course you are. There is a Select Committee report on this, if the Minister cares to look at that...
Lord Judd | 693 c143-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 14: 14: Clause 5, page 3, line 25, leave out paragraph (a) The noble Lord sai...
Lord Avebury | 693 c143GC (Link to this contribution) Hang on, I am just coming to the end. I am not asking the Minister for further information at this s...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c132GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend Lady Carnegy, because she has highlighted the two issues of the rel...
Viscount Simon | 693 c125GC (Link to this contribution) If there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, the Committee will adjourn as soon as th...
Lord Avebury | 693 c181-2GC (Link to this contribution) The point that we were discussing, to which the noble Lord has just replied, is whether the employer...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c181GC (Link to this contribution) The explanation is very simple, although I am not sure whether the Committee will like it. Paragraph...
Lord Avebury | 693 c180GC (Link to this contribution) As on the previous occasion when we considered government Amendment No. 16B, the effect of spelling ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c181GC (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend sits down, I should mention two things. First, I did not respond to the quest...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c177-8GC (Link to this contribution) I rise because I have Amendments Nos. 24 and 25 grouped with Amendment No. 23. As has become apparen...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c176GC (Link to this contribution) It may well be that I have to conduct some longer correspondence than I had hoped on these points. A...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c174GC (Link to this contribution) I realise that the Minister is trying to be helpful. He is trying to say that the drafting of Clause...
Lord Avebury | 693 c170GC (Link to this contribution) Could the Minister deal with my question on whether the basis on which the fees are charged will be ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c173GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, for tabling the amendment because the explana...
Lord Dholakia | 693 c170GC (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister look seriously at the position of asylum seekers, whom we expect will be those car...
Lord Hylton | 693 c169GC (Link to this contribution) Once again, the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, has, with the benefit of his encyclopaedic knowledge, put ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c167GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 19A: 19A: Clause 5, page 4, line 33, leave out ““(immigration rules)”” On Que...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c154GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, speaks to his amendment, I should thank the Minister for that a...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c150GC (Link to this contribution) Is my noble friend saying that employers should not require any form of documentation before conside...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c149GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Hylton—or it might have been the noble Lord, Lord Avebury—asked about data prot...
Lord Avebury | 693 c150GC (Link to this contribution) Is that not exactly the point that was raised by the noble Lord, Lord Judd, that everyone applying f...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 693 c165GC (Link to this contribution) It is most unusual to say this at this point, but it may be helpful. As a result of having heard the...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c164GC (Link to this contribution) I would argue that ““is satisfied”” is also subjective, but there we go. This is a debate for anothe...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c164GC (Link to this contribution) The explanation is that plain English has been used to draft that clause rather than history. It is ...
Lord Hylton | 693 c163-4GC (Link to this contribution) In contrast with the weighty issues that have just been discussed, I would like to raise a low-key d...
Lord Avebury | 693 c141GC (Link to this contribution) I remind the Minister that I said that we were perfectly happy with the remarks he made originally a...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c137-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for explaining the thinking behind his amendment. The expert evidenc...
Lord Judd | 693 c139GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. As I shall do repeatedly in our proceedings, I plug ...
Lord Selsdon | 693 c146GC (Link to this contribution) Is it the census? Would that apply internationally?
Lord Avebury | 693 c145GC (Link to this contribution) Your Lordships may be pleased to know that I shall be mercifully brief. As we understand it, in due ...
Lord Avebury | 693 c143GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for the information that he has given us. I make no apology for raisin...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 693 c132-3GC (Link to this contribution) I shall not be able to do that this afternoon. Cases like that are very rare. We all know that finge...
Earl of Listowel | 693 c128GC (Link to this contribution) As an aside and on what is perhaps tangential to the question before us—I also apologise if this ant...
Lord Hylton | 693 c129GC (Link to this contribution) When the Minister replies, I urge him to take full account of the report on the Bill by the Joint Co...
Subjects
Children Biometrics Asylum Commission for Racial Equality Borders ICT Immigration Human trafficking Discrimination Ethnic groups Race relations Refugees Border and Immigration Agency
Legislation
UK Borders Bill 2006-07
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk