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Debate on bill on Tuesday, 17 July 2007, in the House of Commons, led by Mike O'Brien.

Pensions Bill

Pensions Bill. Programme motion (No 3) on proceedings on consideration of Lords amendments and any subsequent stages. Agreed to on question. Lords amendments considered. Lords amendments 2 to 11, 25 to 27, 29 to 72 agreed to. Lords amendments 1, 12 to 24, 28, 73 disagreed to. Motion to appoint a Committee to draw up reasons for disagreement agreed to. Reasons reported and agreed to. Message to the Lords with said reasons, Bill and amendments.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
463 c192-243 
Session
2006-07
Department
Leader of the House of Commons
Legislative stage
Lords amendments
Procedure
Programme motions
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Pensions Bill. Commons reasons for disagreement.
Tuesday, 17 July 2007
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Mike O'Brien | 463 c198 (Link to this contribution) I suggest that the hon. Gentleman read the report by Andrew Young. It bears reading through. It is c...
Nigel Waterson | 463 c202 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that the report is hot off the press. Is it not inherent in the Young report that it wo...
Show all contributions (95)
Mike O'Brien | 463 c199-200 (Link to this contribution) I would like to make progress, because I have given way quite generously and I am conscious of the t...
Anne Begg | 463 c199 (Link to this contribution) Has my hon. and learned Friend had time to assess whether, if it is possible to roll up those pensio...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c199 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises an interesting and important point. As I have already indicated, we will sugge...
Danny Alexander | 463 c200 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is on the important subject of costs, and he makes the point that it would cost £640 mi...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c200-2 (Link to this contribution) Obviously, the payments will be made over 60 years, and there will be a sort of bell curve; the amou...
Lord Grayling | 463 c200 (Link to this contribution) May I ask the Minister whether he is proud of the fact that his Department has presided over the set...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c200 (Link to this contribution) I notice that rather than answer my question, the hon. Gentleman tried to bluster and attack. He can...
Alan Simpson | 463 c222 (Link to this contribution) I am a huge admirer of my right hon. Friend, but he sometimes steals my final lines. This is kind of...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 463 c222 (Link to this contribution) Can my hon. Friend imagine what the reaction in the House would be if our pension scheme went belly ...
Alan Simpson | 463 c222 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way; this is almost my final sentence. We owe a debt of gratitude to the Lords for ...
Lord Cormack | 463 c222 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
William Cash | 463 c205 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that although the proposal announced by the Minister with regard to a revi...
Nigel Waterson | 463 c204-5 (Link to this contribution) I take the Minister’s point, and he was characteristically generous in accepting interventions. Let ...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c203 (Link to this contribution) May I protest a little? I accepted a lot of interventions to ensure that Members’ questions were ans...
Nigel Waterson | 463 c203 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Minister to our debates on the Bill. It might have helped if he had read the Young rep...
Lord Garnier | 463 c206-7 (Link to this contribution) Is there not a further danger in relation to the purchase of annuities? Recently, compared with prev...
Nigel Waterson | 463 c206 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that is right. I appreciate that it is not for the hon. Gentleman’s Committee to make such...
Tony Wright | 463 c206 (Link to this contribution) For the sake of accuracy, and as he is quoting us liberally, I am sure the hon. Gentleman would want...
Nigel Waterson | 463 c205-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. Yes, there was some lack of clarity—that is t...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c202-3 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, but if he spoke to the PPF members he would find that they woul...
Speaker | 463 c203 (Link to this contribution) I must correct the record in relation to the amendments in which privilege is involved. Privilege is...
Nigel Waterson | 463 c208-9 (Link to this contribution) I can assure the Minister that I am not going to do what he did, which was to just to pick out the b...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c208 (Link to this contribution) I really cannot allow the hon. Gentleman to get away with that. He has been saying all along that un...
Nigel Waterson | 463 c209 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s intervention, which was as penetrating as ever. I think he sh...
Rob Marris | 463 c209 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. Gentleman distinguish between orphan assets, which have been much talked about in this ...
Nigel Waterson | 463 c209 (Link to this contribution) I think that the Minister is failing to distinguish between the inherited estate of insurance compan...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c209 (Link to this contribution) Before the hon. Gentleman makes an allegation like that, he should remember that it is precisely the...
Alan Simpson | 463 c209 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Nigel Waterson | 463 c207 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. and learned Friend for that intervention. I know that he has been a doughty...
Danny Alexander | 463 c207 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a critically important point. If what the Minister said is to be taken ...
Nigel Waterson | 463 c207 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I repeat what I have already said. If hon...
Jenny Willott | 463 c215 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend share my concern that my constituents who are affected are mainly people who wor...
Danny Alexander | 463 c214 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. The amendments’ point is to say, ““Let’s ...
John Butterfill | 463 c214 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will also realise that the suggestion that a loan somehow reflects what happened ...
Danny Alexander | 463 c213 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her intervention and pay tribute to her work in campaigning for ...
Jenny Willott | 463 c213 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend share my surprise that, although the Government finally appear to have accepted ...
Danny Alexander | 463 c212-3 (Link to this contribution) I was struck by the—probably uncharacteristic— partisan tone struck by the Minister in his opening r...
Nigel Waterson | 463 c211 (Link to this contribution) We are committed to find ways, as set out in the amendments, to ensure that people receive compensat...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 463 c211-2 (Link to this contribution) Mr. Deputy Speaker, may I ask you a rhetorical question? Are you, like me, visited by the odd nightm...
Nigel Waterson | 463 c209-11 (Link to this contribution) I should like to make a little progress. The report goes on to talk of the need for primary legisla...
Rob Marris | 463 c211 (Link to this contribution) What these people have gone through is awful; we are all aware of that. In the figures that the hon....
Julie Kirkbride | 463 c218-20 (Link to this contribution) I am particularly honoured to follow the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright), who is Chairman...
Tony Wright | 463 c217-8 (Link to this contribution) As ever, my hon. Friend and fellow Select Committee member makes telling points. I would have prefe...
Lynne Jones | 463 c221 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that it is reasonable to speculate on people’s dying wishes. Many elderly people are j...
Alan Simpson | 463 c220-1 (Link to this contribution) I would like to address some of the misleading arguments that have been used to try to create a case...
Danny Alexander | 463 c215-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right. ““Action this day”” must govern us. It is not enough to delay a little ...
Tony Wright | 463 c216-7 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field) mentioned the word ““justice””, which is ...
Kelvin Hopkins | 463 c217 (Link to this contribution) I support my hon. Friend. The amount of public money involved has been estimated at £20 million for ...
Danny Alexander | 463 c215 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend. Many of the 125,000 people whom we are discussing this evening are in t...
Alan Simpson | 463 c197-8 (Link to this contribution) The Minister places great store by the initial comments of the Young review, but is he aware that in...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c198 (Link to this contribution) With respect, I think that my hon. Friend is over-optimistic as a result of what happened in Ireland...
Stewart Hosie | 463 c198 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has talked about sweating assets and bulking up the pot in the first instance, but when...
Geraldine Smith | 463 c196 (Link to this contribution) As a former trade unionist, I know a good deal when I see one. I think that what the Government prop...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c196-7 (Link to this contribution) I agree that Opposition Members have displayed a touch of opportunism. The Young review has ably dem...
Richard Burden | 463 c197 (Link to this contribution) May I take my hon. and learned Friend back to his comments about the matched funding commitment? The...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c197 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises an important issue. We have to look at where we are going in terms of the Youn...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c196 (Link to this contribution) I am being encouraged to embarrass the Opposition, but the Young review debunks the Conservative myt...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c196 (Link to this contribution) The Young review has made it clear that neither the national insurance fund nor national savings are...
Speaker | 463 c193 (Link to this contribution) I draw the House’s attention to the fact that privilege is involved in Lords amendments Nos. 1, 12 t...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c193 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House disagrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Speaker | 463 c193 (Link to this contribution) With this we may discuss Lords amendment No. 16 and the Government motion to disagree thereto and am...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c193-4 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman allows me to say a little more, if he wishes to intervene later I will happily...
Lord Redwood | 463 c195 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister tell us how much money he is budgeting for the matching promise, which will be a we...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c195 (Link to this contribution) It is the case that the DWP has within its funds sufficient money to be able to match fund the amoun...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c194 (Link to this contribution) It appears that the hon. Gentleman is not proposing that the taxpayer should fund such things. He su...
Lord Grayling | 463 c195 (Link to this contribution) I have two quick questions for the Minister. If his analysis is correct, why is the Young review con...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c196 (Link to this contribution) I notice that the Conservatives are apparently still claiming that there is funding in insurance and...
Gordon Prentice | 463 c195 (Link to this contribution) Does not the review specifically exclude bank and building society account assets? Would they not ma...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c195 (Link to this contribution) The unclaimed assets in bank and building society accounts are not included in the review, but—my ho...
Nigel Waterson | 463 c194 (Link to this contribution) I would not like the Minister’s speech to get off on the wrong foot. Can he please clarify that ther...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c194 (Link to this contribution) Some pension schemes start at 60 or another defined retirement age, but we have made it clear that t...
Speaker | 463 c229 (Link to this contribution) I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the No Lobby. The House having divided: Ayes...
Steve Webb | 463 c238 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Could you clarify whether the intention was to debate amend...
Anne Main | 463 c226-9 (Link to this contribution) It is a delight to follow the hon. Member for Cardiff, North (Julie Morgan), who echoed what had bee...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c229 (Link to this contribution) The debate has been long and passionate, and I shall reply briefly to it. There is clearly great sym...
Julie Morgan | 463 c224-6 (Link to this contribution) I had hoped that the Government would bring this sad series of events to an end this evening by maki...
Mike Penning | 463 c222-4 (Link to this contribution) First, may I put on record what a pleasure it is to follow the hon. Member for Nottingham, South (Al...
Nigel Waterson | 463 c238-9 (Link to this contribution) The amendment was proposed by Baroness Hollis in the other place and carried by quite a handsome maj...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c239-40 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend Baroness Hollis proposed the amendment in the other place. We understand, and a...
Danny Alexander | 463 c240 (Link to this contribution) I will speak very briefly, in the remaining minute of time. The Liberal Democrats believe that this ...
Speaker | 463 c238 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has just moved the amendment formally and does not intend to speak at this time. The Q...
Speaker | 463 c238 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but we have moved on. The Minister moved the motion formally, indicating that he did not...
Nigel Waterson | 463 c238 (Link to this contribution) Further to the point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. My understanding was that the Minister would say ...
Speaker | 463 c238 (Link to this contribution) Order. If the hon. Member for Eastbourne (Mr. Waterson) now wishes to contribute to the debate, he m...
Speaker | 463 c238 (Link to this contribution) Order. Will Members who are not intending either to listen to the debate or take part in it please l...
Nigel Waterson | 463 c238 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I shall be brief because I know that other Members want to participat...
Mike O'Brien | 463 c193 (Link to this contribution) The Government have great sympathy for those who have lost pensions through no fault of their own. T...
Alan Simpson | 463 c221-2 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely right. The sums involved are relatively small in the context of any of the major ...
Gordon Prentice | 463 c215 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will agree that the Young review tells us that, of the £1.7 billion in assets tha...
Subjects
Company liquidations Assets Bank services Annuities Insolvency Financial assistance scheme Personal savings Low incomes Pensions Personal pensions Pension funds Pension Protection Fund State retirement pensions
Legislation
Pensions Bill 2006-07
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk