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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Thursday, 17 January 2008, in the House of Lords.

Children and Young Persons Bill [HL]

Children and Young Persons Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage fourth day. Bill reported with amendments (HL Bill 20 2007-08). Grand Committee held in the Moses Room.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
697 c575-628GC 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Children, Schools and Families
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 697 c600GC (Link to this contribution) Is the situation that, technically, they will not be fosterers but former fosterers? Is it that they...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 697 c599GC (Link to this contribution) I think that the Minister was having a word with his officials, but one of our concerns was that, if...
Show all contributions (128)
Baroness Walmsley | 697 c594GC (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister saying that the designated teacher would have special educational needs training?
Baroness Walmsley | 697 c591-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 74: 74: Clause 17, page 14, line 4, leave out from ““must”” to ““(““the”” in l...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 697 c604-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 89: 89: After Clause 25, insert the following new Clause— ““Scope of inspectio...
Baroness Walmsley | 697 c606GC (Link to this contribution) I quite understand why the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, has tabled the amendment. I rather suspect t...
Baroness Barker | 697 c587GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that response. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave,...
Baroness Walmsley | 697 c583GC (Link to this contribution) I would be most grateful for a letter on the subject. In the mean time, I beg leave to withdraw the ...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 697 c577GC (Link to this contribution) We have great sympathy with these amendments and are most grateful to the Children’s Society and Voi...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 697 c620GC (Link to this contribution) While I am on my feet, perhaps I may make the position clear by reading from the Companion. It state...
Lord Williamson of Horton | 697 c613GC (Link to this contribution) I support Amendment No. 94 on the registration of foster carers with the General Social Care Council...
Lord Adonis | 697 c609-10GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 90: 90: After Clause 27, insert the following new Clause— ““Power of Registrar...
Baroness Walmsley | 697 c615-6GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply, and I thank other noble Lords for taking part in the debate. I a...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 697 c603GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, lend my support most fervently to this amendment. I have beaten the drum on previous occasio...
Lord Rix | 697 c604GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that reply. He said that there would be ““regular”” visits from representat...
Lord Adonis | 697 c603-4GC (Link to this contribution) In determining the appropriate level of support for each child, we should not have a single, automat...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 697 c602-3GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendment and, indeed, the noble Lord, Lord Rix, explained it eloquently as he a...
Lord Adonis | 697 c600GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry—I am taking further advice. They cannot be categorised as foster carers because the child...
Earl of Listowel | 697 c599GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply to my question. I am afraid that I may not have been quite clear....
Lord Northbourne | 697 c598GC (Link to this contribution) I support everything that has been said on the amendment. I have only one small addition to make. It...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 697 c597GC (Link to this contribution) These amendments are key parts of the theme of increasing stability for looked-after children. This ...
Earl of Listowel | 697 c597-8GC (Link to this contribution) Having listened to a young person who left care at 18 and had access to her foster carer for six hou...
Lord Adonis | 697 c594-5GC (Link to this contribution) I was not saying special educational needs training; I was talking about training appropriate to the...
Lord Adonis | 697 c594GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that on two of the three points raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, I can give her c...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 697 c590GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that response. Do I take it that this also applies in relation to ...
Lord Adonis | 697 c604GC (Link to this contribution) We will set this out in guidance, but it will depend on the circumstances of the child and the degre...
Lord Ramsbotham | 697 c605-6GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment. I am sorry that it is there, but I am not surprised, because when, in the c...
Lord Adonis | 697 c608GC (Link to this contribution) I shall probably need to come back to the noble Earl with more detail on precisely what happens but ...
Earl of Listowel | 697 c607GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister sits down, may I check with him about the role of the inspectorate? Am I mistake...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 697 c606GC (Link to this contribution) In the interests of time, I edited my notes so much that I have edited that point as to be incompreh...
Lord Hylton | 697 c586GC (Link to this contribution) In his reply, will the Minister say whether some of this information could be made available under t...
Lord Adonis | 697 c586GC (Link to this contribution) I fear that my response to the noble Baroness will be the same as the one that I gave the last time ...
Baroness Barker | 697 c587GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response. It is as I rather imagined it would be. One reason why I keep...
Earl of Listowel | 697 c577-9GC (Link to this contribution) I support Amendments Nos. 69 and 72 and will speak to my Amendment No. 95A, which concerns a duty on...
Lord Adonis | 697 c581-2GC (Link to this contribution) Looked-after children and young people must be confident that their views are heard and they should ...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 697 c580-1GC (Link to this contribution) I certainly support these three amendments. Some areas have been gone over in discussion on previous...
Lord Ramsbotham | 697 c580GC (Link to this contribution) I particularly support Amendment No. 69 and echo what my noble friend Lord Rix has just said. One me...
Lord Rix | 697 c580GC (Link to this contribution) I support all the amendments in this group. My noble friend Lord Listowel mentioned disabled childre...
Baroness Barker | 697 c583-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 70: 70: After Clause 16, insert the following new Clause— ““Access to informat...
Baroness Walmsley | 697 c582-3GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response and all other noble Lords who have contributed. When we starte...
Lord Adonis | 697 c583GC (Link to this contribution) I need to take further advice on the word ““require””; the IRO can certainly recommend. If I can com...
Lord Adonis | 697 c626GC (Link to this contribution) As I say, we will have to consider these matters. I simply note that already in the course of 10 min...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 697 c623-4GC (Link to this contribution) I very strongly support the amendment. There is no definition of parental responsibility other than ...
Lord Northbourne | 697 c622-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 102: 102: After Clause 33, insert the following new Clause— ““Responsibilities...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 697 c621GC (Link to this contribution) We have always taken a great deal of care about the registration of private fostering. We have moved...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 697 c621GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 100: 100: Clause 31, page 26, line 4, leave out ““““seven”””” and insert ““““f...
Lord Northbourne | 697 c626GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister. I have the utmost confidence in the ability of him and his depar...
Lord Adonis | 697 c626GC (Link to this contribution) Although I have indicated that we are prepared to look at this further, I stress that this needs to ...
Lord Adonis | 697 c626-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 103: 103: Clause 39, page 28, line 1, leave out ““28”” and insert ““(Power of ...
Baroness Walmsley | 697 c610-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 94: 94: Before Clause 29, insert the following new Clause— ““Registration of f...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 697 c608-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister for answering the amendment so fully. I am also grateful to all M...
Lord Adonis | 697 c610GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 91: 91: Clause 28, page 23, line 19, leave out ““section 13 of”” On Question,...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 697 c608GC (Link to this contribution) I was given some rather depressing anecdotal information about recent reports on a body that was not...
Lord Hylton | 697 c619GC (Link to this contribution) I think that this is the appropriate moment in the Bill for me to raise questions about privately ar...
Lord Adonis | 697 c619GC (Link to this contribution) Now I understand the point. I accept that that would be very different. However, I restate that it i...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 697 c619GC (Link to this contribution) I would be most grateful. I thank the Minister and beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, ...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 697 c618-9GC (Link to this contribution) Where there is no target as such. A scientifically calculated phenomenon should be a current either ...
Lord Adonis | 697 c616GC (Link to this contribution) That could of course be accepted by the parties concerned.
Lord Judd | 697 c603GC (Link to this contribution) For that reason I very much support it. I am tempted to make one observation that I hope Members of ...
Lord Judd | 697 c603GC (Link to this contribution) I warmly support the amendment and congratulate noble Lord, Lord Rix, on introducing it. It seems th...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 697 c603GC (Link to this contribution) I totally agree with what has been said and very much support the amendment.
Lord Rix | 697 c600-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 85: 85: After Clause 20, insert the following new Clause— ““Statements: looked...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 697 c600GC (Link to this contribution) Therefore, if they are categorised as carers, might there be some provision for payment to them, for...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 697 c600GC (Link to this contribution) In that case, as I said, the power to make regulations in this Bill is unnecessary. This is a mild a...
Lord Adonis | 697 c600GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, I believe that that is what I am saying.
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 697 c600GC (Link to this contribution) Then we will probably not bring this amendment back at Report, although we will perhaps consider the...
Lord Adonis | 697 c598-9GC (Link to this contribution) As several noble Lords have said, young people without parental and family support are exposed to gr...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 697 c598GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise for not being here earlier today. I support the amendment. The Government are hugely to ...
Lord Adonis | 697 c595-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 78: 78: Clause 18, page 15, line 26, at end insert— ““( ) Section 104(2) of th...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 697 c596-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 84: 84: Clause 19, page 16, line 30, at end insert— ““( ) The appropriate nati...
Baroness Walmsley | 697 c595GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply. I am pleased that he is able to confirm that subsection (4), I p...
Lord Judd | 697 c593GC (Link to this contribution) It strikes me that this is potentially a very helpful amendment to allow my noble friend to be able ...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 697 c593-4GC (Link to this contribution) I very much support all three amendments. This gives me the opportunity to ask the Minister a questi...
Lord Rix | 697 c604GC (Link to this contribution) Once every six months. I am not sure that that is sufficient. I would hope that eventually the guida...
Lord Adonis | 697 c587GC (Link to this contribution) I absolutely accept that. I understand that it is covered both by guidance and by the ICS. The noble...
Lord Adonis | 697 c587GC (Link to this contribution) Because of the revisions that we have undertaken to make to guidance under the Children Act, we will...
Lord Adonis | 697 c590GC (Link to this contribution) Section 22 of the Children Act 1989 places local authorities, and therefore independent reviewing of...
Lord Geddes | 697 c575GC (Link to this contribution) All your Lordships are fully aware of what happens when there is a Division so I shall not read out ...
Baroness Walmsley | 697 c575-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 69: 69: After Clause 16, insert the following new Clause— ““Advocacy for looke...
Lord Adonis | 697 c625-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am swayed by the debate to say that the Government will consider this further and come back on Rep...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 697 c626GC (Link to this contribution) The suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, would be infinitely preferable to the Scottis...
Baroness Walmsley | 697 c624-5GC (Link to this contribution) As somebody who wanted to define the word ““near”” in relation to schools and ““independence”” in re...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 697 c621GC (Link to this contribution) I certainly support the amendment. A reduction of two years should give plenty of time. The other ma...
Lord Adonis | 697 c620GC (Link to this contribution) I will write to the noble Lord with a fuller explanation of the Government’s position on the issue. ...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 697 c612-3GC (Link to this contribution) The amendments relate to the registration, regulation and payment of foster carers and seek to clari...
Lord Adonis | 697 c608GC (Link to this contribution) The best response I can give is to draw the chief inspector’s attention to the remarks made in the C...
Lord Ramsbotham | 697 c608GC (Link to this contribution) Following on from that, when the prisons inspectors were asked to take part in the first inspections...
Lord Hylton | 697 c620GC (Link to this contribution) I am speaking to whether the clause shall stand part.
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 697 c620GC (Link to this contribution) I am in a little difficulty. I do not believe that the noble Lord has chosen the appropriate place t...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 697 c619GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply. I sometimes reel under his replies, and then I remember that I r...
Lord Adonis | 697 c619GC (Link to this contribution) All I can say is that the Government do not impose, and have never imposed, adoption targets for ind...
Lord Adonis | 697 c617-8GC (Link to this contribution) That was precisely the reason for the initial target which we set in 2000. However, I am glad that I...
Earl of Listowel | 697 c617GC (Link to this contribution) I have heard the concerns of a provider of adoption services that children who should not have been ...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 697 c617GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 95: 95: Before Clause 29, insert the following new Clause— ““Adoption targets ...
Baroness Walmsley | 697 c616-7GC (Link to this contribution) Naturally, if the parties concerned accept it, they will not object to having their fee removed, I s...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 697 c618GC (Link to this contribution) I respectfully suggest that in so far as the nomination of such a target is concerned—I appreciate t...
Lord Adonis | 697 c614-5GC (Link to this contribution) I shall come back to the noble Earl with a specific answer to his question. On Amendment No. 96, th...
Baroness Walmsley | 697 c602GC (Link to this contribution) I added my name to the amendment in the hope that the Minister will grasp this opportunity to get ri...
Lord Adonis | 697 c599GC (Link to this contribution) As I understand it, it is not as straightforward as that. The Bill would permit registration of care...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 697 c599GC (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the Minister for his reply. Am I right in interpreting him as saying that...
Lord Adonis | 697 c599GC (Link to this contribution) I will reply to the noble Baroness on that point when I have taken further advice.
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 697 c593GC (Link to this contribution) We support the amendments. An essential element of improving the quality of care for looked-after ch...
Lord Adonis | 697 c590-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry. I should have replied separately on Amendment No. 101. The bulk of the noble Baroness’s ...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 697 c591GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his response. On the SENDIST issue, we are somewhat reassured by w...
Earl of Listowel | 697 c606GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment and thank my noble friend for the inspirational reports from the joint chief...
Lord Adonis | 697 c607GC (Link to this contribution) There is no disagreement whatever between the noble Baroness and me. The issue is whether existing l...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 697 c587GC (Link to this contribution) It would be hard not to have some sympathy for this amendment. Who could argue with the noble Barone...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 697 c587-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 73: 73: Before Clause 17, insert the following new Clause— ““Appeal to the Spe...
Lord Judd | 697 c589-90GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment. Its relevance can be succinctly established: are we about empowering these ...
Lord Hylton | 697 c580GC (Link to this contribution) I have previously declared my honorary interest in the Northern Ireland Association for the Care and...
Lord Judd | 697 c577GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment makes an important point and I look forward to hearing what my noble friend the Minist...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 697 c625GC (Link to this contribution) I have not the slightest doubt that the noble Lord, Lord Northbourne, does the interests of children...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 697 c625GC (Link to this contribution) I agree that it would be particularly splendid to have the word ““love”” in there somewhere, but we ...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 697 c625GC (Link to this contribution) I accept that, but my noble friend deserves credit for finding it and putting it to us in this way. ...
Lord Northbourne | 697 c625GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to my noble friends for flattering me on the wording, but it is taken straight fr...
Lord Ramsbotham | 697 c624GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, very strongly support the amendment tabled by my noble friend Lord Northbourne. As has alrea...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 697 c623GC (Link to this contribution) Throughout all our discussions on the Bill we have focused on the responsibilities of those in the c...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 697 c622GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply, but it is not very adequate. What has changed between 2004 and n...
Lord Adonis | 697 c622GC (Link to this contribution) I can say how much more time we need to take a decision. That is precisely the three years we seek i...
Lord Adonis | 697 c620-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 99: 99: Clause 30, page 25, line 40, leave out ““a national authority”” and in...
Lord Adonis | 697 c627-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 104 to 107: 104: Clause 39, page 28, line 3, after ““bringing”” insert ““sub...
Earl of Listowel | 697 c614GC (Link to this contribution) In the context of Amendment No. 94, can the Minister say what progress there has been in the registr...
Lord Hylton | 697 c620GC (Link to this contribution) I have not given formal notice, but I have given notice to the Minister’s officials. I hope that is ...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 697 c620GC (Link to this contribution) Of course the noble Lord is perfectly entitled to do what he is doing, but it is courteous to give n...
Lord Adonis | 697 c618GC (Link to this contribution) I am still trying to absorb precisely what the noble Lord is asking me to agree to. Is it whether lo...
Subjects
Children Data protection Children in care Advocacy Foster care Parents Tribunals Special educational needs Young people Care leavers
Legislation
Children and Young Persons Bill (HL) 2007-08
Link
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