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Debate on Monday, 4 February 2008, in the House of Commons, led by Tony McNulty. The answering member was David Ruffley.

Police Grant

Debate on a motion to approve the Police Grant Report (England and Wales) 2008-09 (HC 265). Agreed on division (280 to 171)

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
471 c672-720 
Session
2007-08
Department
Home Office
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Christopher Fraser | 471 c702-4 (Link to this contribution) I want to focus on this year's police grant settlement in relation to the specific needs of rural po...
Lord Horam | 471 c701-2 (Link to this contribution) I wish to direct the House's attention away from the rolling acres of Lincolnshire to the leafy subu...
Show all contributions (97)
Brian Binley | 471 c707-8 (Link to this contribution) May I thank the Minister most sincerely at the start of my contribution—before he quickly leaves—for...
Crispin Blunt | 471 c704-7 (Link to this contribution) I rise to debate some of the details of the police grant, with particular reference to Surrey. I am ...
Viscount Hailsham | 471 c699-700 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right. The two points that he identified are certainly common to his county an...
David Leslie Taylor | 471 c699 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. and learned Gentleman represents a seat in the same region as me. There are two facto...
Chris Huhne | 471 c700 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree—this may serve as a salutary warning to his party's ...
John Hayes | 471 c708 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a robust case for Northamptonshire, but Lincolnshire people look on that county...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 471 c711 (Link to this contribution) I think my right hon. Friend will find that there is no good or bad cholesterol but too little or to...
Tony McNulty | 471 c711 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate everybody who has made a contribution to the debate. As I said at the start, I certai...
Brian Binley | 471 c710-1 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention and I completely accept his comments. He gives me the o...
John Hayes | 471 c710 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes his case with the eloquence of Pericles and the strength of Hercules. Will he a...
Brian Binley | 471 c709 (Link to this contribution) I would be delighted if we were to proceed in that way, and that gives me a little hope—[Interruptio...
David Ruffley | 471 c709 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that it would sensible for the Opposition to vote against the motion on th...
Brian Binley | 471 c708-9 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that guidance, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I learnt my bad habits as a local councillor an...
Speaker | 471 c708 (Link to this contribution) Order. I have to make the point again to the hon. Gentleman who, despite some experience in this Hou...
Tony McNulty | 471 c711 (Link to this contribution) As I tried to point out at the most recent Home Office questions, only to be charged the next day—by...
Tony McNulty | 471 c712-3 (Link to this contribution) No, but I will happily charge some of the key officials in the Home Office to sit down in a locked r...
Crispin Blunt | 471 c712 (Link to this contribution) In the light of the remarks that the Minister has just made, will he at least therefore act next yea...
Viscount Hailsham | 471 c713 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has been talking about officials and the formula. It would be helpful if he...
Tony McNulty | 471 c713 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the right hon. and learned Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Mr. Hogg), but ...
Brian Binley | 471 c713 (Link to this contribution) How does the right hon. Gentleman feel that that applies to the sustainable communities project? The...
Tony McNulty | 471 c713 (Link to this contribution) I take the point, which is, I suppose, a rough analogy to the sparsity point that relates to the nex...
Tony McNulty | 471 c712 (Link to this contribution) The bonkers bit—the charge that I was bonkers, however temporarily, as he was kind enough to say. Ac...
Brian Binley | 471 c714 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his generosity in giving way. I would only add that the county ...
Tony McNulty | 471 c714-6 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the burghers of Northamptonshire are very grateful for all that the county council ha...
Tony McNulty | 471 c713-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is not being entirely fair, but in many regards across the Government, that is pr...
Chris Huhne | 471 c695-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point; I am happy to agree with him. It is also crucial that the Govern...
Viscount Hailsham | 471 c696-7 (Link to this contribution) I should like to begin by offering the House an apology, because what I am going to say will be of p...
David Heath | 471 c697 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. and learned Gentleman should make no apology for talking about Lincolnshire. That is ...
Viscount Hailsham | 471 c697-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right. Such measures would, for example, constrain the ability of any police f...
Chris Huhne | 471 c695 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. and learned Gentleman makes a good point. In the police service, although less so in ...
David Leslie Taylor | 471 c695 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman talks about IT project failures, which have been legion over 20 years or more, bu...
Chris Huhne | 471 c695 (Link to this contribution) I certainly hope that the hon. Gentleman is right to think that there will perhaps be fewer overruns...
Tom Brake | 471 c695 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that when budgets are tight, even if the IT projects are successful there ...
Chris Huhne | 471 c694 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point about one of the pressures on the budgets. Another example of str...
Viscount Hailsham | 471 c695 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree that efficiency is one of the ways forward, but the hon. Gentleman should also keep...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 471 c690-3 (Link to this contribution) Some time ago, it was suggested that Cheshire and Liverpool should amalgamate their police forces. O...
Tony McNulty | 471 c689 (Link to this contribution) I did not want to lose the hon. Gentleman's point. He is perfectly right that the Police and Crimina...
David Ruffley | 471 c689-90 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. The 2004 White Paper promised to free up the equivalent of 12,000 ex...
David Ruffley | 471 c689 (Link to this contribution) If the Minister must intervene, I shall give way.
David Ruffley | 471 c688-9 (Link to this contribution) I take my right hon. and learned Friend's point, which I have debated with the Minister. We would be...
Viscount Hailsham | 471 c688 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is entirely right to challenge the overregulation of bureaucracy in the police servic...
Tom Brake | 471 c694 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that because the budgets are so tight, if something external to the police...
David Ruffley | 471 c682-3 (Link to this contribution) In opening for the Conservatives, may I congratulate the Minister on taking quite a lot of intervent...
Crispin Blunt | 471 c683 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has properly given the example of Surrey. Is he aware that the chief constable has wr...
David Ruffley | 471 c683-4 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that the chief constable is writing to the Minister and I think that I know enough ab...
Viscount Hailsham | 471 c684 (Link to this contribution) The phrase ““funding gap”” is wonderfully bland. Perhaps my hon. Friend would care to remind the Hou...
David Ruffley | 471 c684-7 (Link to this contribution) As usual, my right hon. and learned Friend makes an elegant and trenchant point and I hope that the ...
Anne Milton | 471 c687 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend join me in sympathising with many of the residents of Surrey, which he mentioned...
Eric Martlew | 471 c687 (Link to this contribution) They can't afford to live there.
David Ruffley | 471 c687 (Link to this contribution) May I point out to the hon. Gentleman that Surrey faces challenges, just as anywhere else does, and ...
David Ruffley | 471 c687-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an excellent point, underscoring the fact that it is not right that parts of th...
Anne Milton | 471 c687 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for his generosity in giving way a second time. As he suggested, the notion t...
Tony McNulty | 471 c679 (Link to this contribution) I am not being pedantic when I say that that is simply not the case. The increase in total Governmen...
Crispin Blunt | 471 c679 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The Minister is in danger of misleading the House. I have t...
Crispin Blunt | 471 c679 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the Minister would not wish inadvertently to mislead the public or anyone else. The f...
Tony McNulty | 471 c679-80 (Link to this contribution) May I finish what I was saying before the point of order? The increase of £23.6 million— 25 per cent...
Robert Key | 471 c680 (Link to this contribution) May I draw the Minister's attention to a particular problem that has arisen in Wiltshire? When I saw...
Speaker | 471 c679 (Link to this contribution) That is not a point of order for the Chair. Statistics can vary in all sorts of ways. It is a matter...
Tony McNulty | 471 c681-2 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely, and I am very happy to do so. We spoke earlier about Avon and Somerset, and with 3.5 per...
Kerry McCarthy | 471 c681 (Link to this contribution) Considerable concern has been expressed in the local media about Avon and Somerset losing out becaus...
Tony McNulty | 471 c680-1 (Link to this contribution) I have already looked at that and I am assured by both MODP and some of the local forces involved—al...
Tony McNulty | 471 c675 (Link to this contribution) I take the hon. Gentleman's point, although I cannot give him a complete assurance in that regard, b...
Tony McNulty | 471 c675 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has moved places, but I give way.
Mark Pritchard | 471 c675 (Link to this contribution) The Minister was trying to avoid me. However, I am grateful to him for giving way, and I know that h...
Tony McNulty | 471 c675-6 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not think that I accept that. I should point out to the House that the hon. Gentleman refer...
Keith Vaz | 471 c674 (Link to this contribution) The response of the chief constable of Leicestershire was that he welcomed the settlement, but he ri...
David Howarth | 471 c674 (Link to this contribution) Precisely on that point, the problem in Cambridgeshire seems to be the delay. Did I understand the M...
Tony McNulty | 471 c674 (Link to this contribution) The straightforward answer to my right hon. Friend is no, in the context of the three-year horizon p...
James Paice | 471 c675 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving way because I, too, want to discuss Cambridgeshire. He has ...
Tony McNulty | 471 c674 (Link to this contribution) No, that would be—if I can bore people—a rather churlish interpretation of what I said. What we are ...
Crispin Blunt | 471 c679 (Link to this contribution) The Minister used Surrey as an extreme example of local funding replacing national funding. I will a...
Tony McNulty | 471 c679 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may be putting words into my mouth. I did not say that local funding was replacin...
Elfyn Llwyd | 471 c678 (Link to this contribution) It is just possible that the hon. Member for South-East Cambridgeshire (Mr. Paice) was a bit unfair ...
Tony McNulty | 471 c679 (Link to this contribution) To be absolutely fair, and at the risk of sounding pedantic, I should tell the hon. Gentleman that m...
Tony McNulty | 471 c676-7 (Link to this contribution) I accept the hon. Gentleman's point. Equally, I recognise that the sum of all the changes that many ...
Roger Williams | 471 c676 (Link to this contribution) It would be churlish of me not to recognise the changes that the Government have made to the rural p...
Tony McNulty | 471 c678 (Link to this contribution) There has been some progress in the subterranean channels, but none in any public sense. The core of...
James Paice | 471 c678 (Link to this contribution) What the Minister has just said sounds perfectly reasonable and most people would support it, but he...
Tony McNulty | 471 c677-8 (Link to this contribution) In the first instance, that is a matter, as I say, for Tim Brain, but I fully and wholeheartedly end...
Lord Harper | 471 c677 (Link to this contribution) Until a few moments ago, the Minister was joined on the Front Bench by the Minister for Local Govern...
Tony McNulty | 471 c672 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That the Police Grant Report (England and Wales) 2008-09 (House of Commons Paper No. ...
Tony McNulty | 471 c672 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. I want to put things into context and I shall then spend a not inconsiderable time g...
Tony McNulty | 471 c674 (Link to this contribution) I said at the start that, given the localised nature of the debate, I wished to be as generous as po...
Tony McNulty | 471 c673 (Link to this contribution) I would never accuse my hon. Friend of being the least bit churlish. I hope that those matters will ...
Tony McNulty | 471 c673 (Link to this contribution) I balked at allowing hon. Members to intervene straight away because I knew from the last couple of ...
Tony McNulty | 471 c673 (Link to this contribution) Let me say, as gently as I can, that the hon. Gentleman's comments are rather churlish, given that t...
David Heath | 471 c673 (Link to this contribution) Forces such as Avon and Somerset are worried about the persistence of the damping mechanism, which m...
Tony McNulty | 471 c673 (Link to this contribution) I will. The broader context of the settlement has been welcomed. Some people believed that it would ...
Lord Robathan | 471 c672-3 (Link to this contribution) Let me take the Minister back to his comments about proposals being widely welcomed. I attended a me...
Viscount Hailsham | 471 c700-1 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the first part of what the hon. Gentleman has said. It is indeed important to try to in...
Brian Binley | 471 c708 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful for your intervention and I welcome its robustness—
Chris Huhne | 471 c693-4 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted, as always, to follow the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mrs. Dunwoody), who spo...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 471 c673 (Link to this contribution) I hope that my right hon. Friend will not accuse me of churlishness. As the recipient of a 2.5 per c...
Subjects
Finance Police Pay Local government finance Workplace pensions Police authorities
Contains statistics
Yes
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk