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Debate on bill on Monday, 21 April 2008, in the House of Lords.

Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill. Lords report stage third day. Amendment 86N negatived on division (66 votes to 30). Amendment 87A agreed to on division (81 votes to 57). Part 3 of 3 records.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
700 c1336-78 
Session
2007-08
Department
Ministry of Justice
Legislative stage
Report stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Tebbit | 700 c1375 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, can the Minister say whether he considers that the existing guidance on these matters is a...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1374-5 (Link to this contribution) First, My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Waddington, has had a long wait before we came to this amendme...
Show all contributions (77)
Lord Kingsland | 700 c1373 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I said in Committee that the Opposition would be having a free vote on this matter. Person...
Baroness Knight of Collingtree | 700 c1373 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support very much what has just been said, and I want to point out to the noble Lord, Lo...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1375 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to answer the noble Lord first.
Lord Smith of Finsbury | 700 c1375 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am trying to be helpful. My noble friend might perhaps wish to observe to the noble Lord...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1375 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is simply not possible for me to comment on individual cases.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1375 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I cannot say that I have studied the existing guidance with extensive care. I am happy to ...
Lord Tebbit | 700 c1375 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if the Minister has no reason to think that the guidance is not adequate, how have the inc...
Lord Elton | 700 c1369 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may beg the Minister to have in mind that the object of his legislation, as I un...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 700 c1367-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my name is also attached to this amendment, and I am very proud that it is. In supporting ...
Bishop of Newcastle | 700 c1372 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment succeeds one that was debated in Committee. In its original form it would h...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 700 c1372-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the interpretation of the Bill is not difficult because the offence, as defined, is using ...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 700 c1373 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord examined carefully and forensically the various ingredients of a possible o...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 700 c1369-70 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I urge my noble friend not to accept this amendment. I spoke against it in Committee and m...
Lord Monson | 700 c1370 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I respectfully point out to the noble Baroness, Lady Turner, that there has not been a sli...
Lord Smith of Finsbury | 700 c1370-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am loath to disagree with my noble friend Lord Clarke who has been a good and valued col...
Earl Ferrers | 700 c1371-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Finsbury, has made a very impassioned and understandable spe...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1375 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, that, as ever, is a helpful comment. I say to the noble Lord that he would not expect me t...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1376 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have no reason to believe that the current guidance is inadequate. That is what I have s...
Lord Tebbit | 700 c1376 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister, but I still do not think that he has understood quite what I said to...
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 700 c1376 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, surely the noble Lord must agree that whether the offence is threatening or not will be in...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1376 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it will be in the eye of the court which, eventually, might come to make a judgment. I am ...
Lord Waddington | 700 c1376-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am extremely grateful to all those who have spoken tonight, particularly those who have ...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1378 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that further consideration on Report be now adjourned. Moved accordingly, a...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 700 c1360 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if we followed the Minister’s invitation we would have to experience every single thing th...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1360 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness. That is the point that she was just coming to. We are...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 700 c1359-60 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank those who have spoken, particularly the noble Lord, Lord McIntosh, who set a tone ...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1358-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that the answer is that some would be covered by offences in this country and some...
Earl of Onslow | 700 c1358 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, were the acts that the Minister saw in those videos in themselves illegal? That question h...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1357-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was trying to explain that there are three elements to the offence. In our two debates, ...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 700 c1357 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister said that, when he went down to the Charing Cross station, some of the materi...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1356-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been a very interesting debate. I think that the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, sai...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 700 c1355-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, judgment tends to go out of the window when we deal with matters in this area. I recall ma...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 700 c1355 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not like pornography. I was never allowed to read Juvenal’s satires as a child. Child...
Lord Monson | 700 c1355 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I had not originally intended to speak on this group of amendments but, as a libertarian, ...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 700 c1355 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, support these amendments. Almost inevitably we are going to have to go through the...
Lord Cobbold | 700 c1355 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I totally support the point of view so eloquently expressed by the noble Lord, Lord McInto...
Earl of Onslow | 700 c1352 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord. My bet is that the Turkish ambassador commissioned that painting for sexual ...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 700 c1354-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, expressed reservations about these clauses in Committee and took very much the sam...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 700 c1352-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment moved by my noble friend Lady Miller. It was supported very robust...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 700 c1362 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I regret that the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, has not been able to play her extremely usefu...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1365 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the signal that I have given is to echo the noble Lord’s concern about such allegations. H...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 700 c1365 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister says that he is sympathetic, and he rightly says that we are seeking to send ...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1364-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, for raising this important point. I have ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 700 c1363-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 87: 87: Schedule 16, page 219, line 20, at end insert— ““( ) After subsection ...
Lord Armstrong of Ilminster | 700 c1367 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have added my name to the amendment proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Waddington. I simpl...
Lord Waddington | 700 c1365-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 87A: 87A: Schedule 16, page 220, line 2, at end insert— ““After section 29J in...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 700 c1365 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall not trouble your Lordships by dividing the House at this stage. I will reflect on ...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 700 c1360 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Baroness says that it is reasonable but the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, who agree...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 700 c1362 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was not aware that we were not going to debate this second issue. I was certainly reserv...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 700 c1360-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, can I finish my point? I am sorry to provoke the Minister so much, but that is dangerous g...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1361 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not sure whether the House wishes me to go over the ground again, or whether the nobl...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 700 c1361 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 86N: 86N: Clause 63, leave out Clause 63 The noble Baroness said: My Lords, I...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 700 c1343-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 86H: 86H: After Clause 62, insert the following new Clause— ““Withdrawal of wa...
Lord Bach | 700 c1342 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 86C: 86C: Clause 61, page 46, line 14, leave out ““£500,000”” and insert— ““(a...
Lord Bach | 700 c1342-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 86E to 86G: 86E: Clause 61, page 46, line 22, leave out first ““the”” and in...
Lord Bach | 700 c1339-41 (Link to this contribution) My Lord, there is certainly a difference and of course I accept that. I understand that the average ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 700 c1341-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, many of the arguments in the Minister’s response indicate how blinkered the Government are...
Lord Bach | 700 c1338-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before I turn to the government amendments in this group, I hope that it will assist the H...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 700 c1339 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if the noble Lord is going to use that statistic, does he agree that claims on the compens...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 700 c1336-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 86A: 86A: Clause 61, page 45, line 3, leave out ““2”” and insert ““6”” The no...
Lord McIntosh of Haringey | 700 c1349-50 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I added my name to these amendments and I am glad to support the noble Baroness, Lady Mill...
Lord Henley | 700 c1350-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord McIntosh, quoted Kenneth Tynan. I do not know whether he saw the inte...
Earl of Onslow | 700 c1351-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, are we not facing the terrible problem of definition? Where you have a definition that say...
Lord Bach | 700 c1348 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord presses me, but I can go no further than to confirm that this important sco...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 700 c1348 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his full response. I have no doubt that I shall discuss ...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 700 c1348-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 86J: 86J: Clause 63, page 47, line 7, leave out ““both”” The noble Baroness s...
Lord Bach | 700 c1345-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, of course we accept that vulnerable people may have difficulty in dealing with some issues...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 700 c1347 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the Minister sits down, he referred to work in progress and the introduction of a r...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1362 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend does. That is why I suspect that, in the end, it comes down to personal co...
Subjects
Compensation Criminal proceedings Administration of justice Crimes of violence Pornography Magistrates' courts Miscarriages of justice Paedophilia Sexuality Right of search
Legislation
Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill 2006-07 to 2007-08
Contains statistics
Yes
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk