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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Monday, 2 March 2009, in the House of Lords.

Health Bill [HL]

Health Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage third day. Clauses 9, 10, 11 agreed to. Schedule 1 agreed to. Grand Committee held in the Moses Room.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
708 c203-56GC 
Session
2008-09
Department
Department of Health
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Deposited Paper DEP2009-1538
Monday, 2 March 2009
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2009-1537
Monday, 2 March 2009
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Barker | 708 c233-4GC (Link to this contribution) In response to the amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Wilkins, I want to point out a parti...
Baroness Wilkins | 708 c235GC (Link to this contribution) On the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, I hope that the role of support services will ...
Show all contributions (85)
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 708 c235GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 63A is probably the most important amendment that we have looked at today. A feature of vo...
Baroness Barker | 708 c245GC (Link to this contribution) I do not wish to spend tremendous time on this group of amendments because to some extent the point ...
Baroness Barker | 708 c240GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 52A 52A: Clause 9, page 7, line 8, at end insert— "( ) as to whether a patient wishes to ...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 708 c242GC (Link to this contribution) I think that all the points that I raised earlier have been covered in questions, so I will not cove...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c251-3GC (Link to this contribution) There are many amendments so I may take a little time to go through them. Most of them are concerned...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c220-2GC (Link to this contribution) Direct payments for healthcare form part of a wider programme, which I announced last year in High Q...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c224GC (Link to this contribution) Page 42 of the document, Personal Health Budgets: First Steps, says: ""The ‘boundary’ between health...
Earl Howe | 708 c206-8GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, needs to apologise at all for the number of ame...
Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 708 c234-5GC (Link to this contribution) I will speak briefly in support of the amendment, because we have gone over all the arguments on the...
Baroness Barker | 708 c235GC (Link to this contribution) I direct the noble Baroness to the IBSEN report.
Lord Campbell-Savours | 708 c239GC (Link to this contribution) Would not the pilots collectively be a good subject for the National Audit Office to consider in a v...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c246-8GC (Link to this contribution) The amendments in this group are concerned with the design of the pilot schemes for healthcare direc...
Baroness Barker | 708 c248GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 62 62: Clause 9, page 8, leave out line 12
Baroness Barker | 708 c248GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that reply. The amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, ...
Earl Howe | 708 c250GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak briefly to Amendment 66, the purpose of which is simply to emphasise the importance of...
Baroness Barker | 708 c249GC (Link to this contribution) We continue to talk about the review of the pilots, which again is one of the most important things ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 708 c241-2GC (Link to this contribution) That is a particularly interesting question which my noble friend will know is being asked by a numb...
Earl Howe | 708 c239GC (Link to this contribution) That was another helpful reply from the Minister. It is probably time that we moved on. We can alway...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c239GC (Link to this contribution) If that is another avenue that we can use to evaluate the pilots, I will certainly look into it.
Baroness Pitkeathley | 708 c256GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned until Thursday at 2 pm.
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c256GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the noble Lord’s intervention. I believe that that still happens although we may b...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 708 c250-1GC (Link to this contribution) Would it be possible for the local authority overview and scrutiny committees and county authorities...
Baroness Barker | 708 c254GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the Minister might write to me about the issue of provider failure; I do not want to prolong...
Lord Patel | 708 c217GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment tabled by noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege. I must be the only obstetrician i...
Baroness Murphy | 708 c217-8GC (Link to this contribution) I rise to add my tuppenceworth to this debate. I very much support the amendments but, at the same t...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c224GC (Link to this contribution) That would probably fall within the direct payment budget of social care rather than healthcare, so ...
Lord Warner | 708 c224GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that assurance, but the mattress cited by the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell, is sy...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c225GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the noble Baroness’s intervention. On the interface between health and social car...
Lord Colwyn | 708 c203GC (Link to this contribution) Good afternoon. If there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, the Committee will adjou...
Lord Warner | 708 c211-3GC (Link to this contribution) I was first involved in introducing direct payments 20 years ago as a director of social services in...
Baroness Barker | 708 c203GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 9: Direct payments for health care Amendment 50 50: Clause 9, page 6, line 18, at end inser...
Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 708 c214-5GC (Link to this contribution) I was not going to speak until the amendments tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Wilkins—on which, o...
Earl Howe | 708 c227GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 52 52: Clause 9, page 7, line 8, at end insert— "( ) as to the manner in which the patien...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c226GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry if I did not touch on the issues raised by the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, in relation to ...
Baroness Wilkins | 708 c232-3GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Amendments 63A, 69A and 69B in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Campbell. I...
Earl Howe | 708 c239GC (Link to this contribution) This has been a useful debate. I thank the Minister, in particular, for his reply. I am still uncle...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c239GC (Link to this contribution) The evaluation issue will come up in debates on later amendments, but I will touch on it now. We wil...
Baroness Masham of Ilton | 708 c246GC (Link to this contribution) I support that amendment because conditions in a rural area are totally different from those in a la...
Baroness Barker | 708 c245GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 61 61: Clause 9, page 8, line 11, at end insert— "( ) the demographic groups in which a p...
Baroness Barker | 708 c244-5GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reassurances in respect of the two amendments that I tabled. I say to t...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 708 c245-6GC (Link to this contribution) Once again, I want to say a few words on behalf of UNISON. It is concerned about the spread of pilot...
Baroness Cumberlege | 708 c241GC (Link to this contribution) I shall address Amendment 55 in relation to top-ups. At the briefing last week, I asked whether a pe...
Baroness Barker | 708 c240GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, mentioned the National Audit Office. I think he will find tha...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c242-4GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 52A, which was tabled by the noble Baronesses, Lady Barker and Lady Tonge, would add a spe...
Baroness Thornton | 708 c256GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Thursday at 2 pm.
Baroness Barker | 708 c253-4GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, for that very full response to the large number of issues raised...
Lord Rea | 708 c250GC (Link to this contribution) I shall say a few words about Amendment 65, to which I have added my name. I am considerably reassur...
Baroness Barker | 708 c254GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 70 70: Before Clause 10, insert the following new Clause— "Choice to top-up accommodation...
Baroness Barker | 708 c254-5GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Committee for being prepared to put up with a bit more of me at this time of night. I pr...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c254GC (Link to this contribution) Thank you. I spend a fair bit of time teaching the Department of Health how to do PowerPoints, but t...
Baroness Masham of Ilton | 708 c219GC (Link to this contribution) I have a question, too. Will drug and alcohol services be included in direct payments? So many peopl...
Earl of Listowel | 708 c219-20GC (Link to this contribution) I will speak as briefly as I can in support of the thrust of Amendment 58 in the name of the noble B...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 708 c223GC (Link to this contribution) Can I take my noble friend back to maternity services? Suppose that it can be shown that a maternity...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 708 c224GC (Link to this contribution) Going back to the speech made by the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell, on Second Reading, which was rea...
Baroness Cumberlege | 708 c215-6GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister replies, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours for entering the debate. ...
Earl Howe | 708 c227-8GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 52 and the other amendments in this group are in large part about information and support ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 708 c229-32GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to two amendments: Amendment 57, which I tabled, and Amendment 54. In speaking to Amen...
Baroness Masham of Ilton | 708 c226GC (Link to this contribution) I have one more question. What happens if one PCT gives a direct payment to one patient and the next...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c226GC (Link to this contribution) I will bring this discussion back. We are running pilots across the country, and it is for the PCTs ...
Baroness Masham of Ilton | 708 c235GC (Link to this contribution) I shall give an example of what happened to me. I cannot leave my home in Yorkshire without my helpe...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c235-9GC (Link to this contribution) These amendments deal with the provision of information, protection and support for recipients of di...
Earl Howe | 708 c240-1GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak briefly to Amendments 55 and 56. An issue flagged up earlier this afternoon was what h...
Baroness Masham of Ilton | 708 c242GC (Link to this contribution) This relates to the point that I was making before about what happens when the budget goes over. It ...
Baroness Barker | 708 c256GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his kind and full response. I hoped that we might have got to it quicker, b...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 708 c256GC (Link to this contribution) Might I raise an issue about which the Minister may not be aware? At the beginning of the National H...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c255-6GC (Link to this contribution) I start by putting firmly on the record that the Government are committed to the NHS as a service ba...
Baroness Cumberlege | 708 c250GC (Link to this contribution) I pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, and her diligence in taking through legislation. H...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 708 c218-9GC (Link to this contribution) I have hesitated over whether to speak now or later, but this debate has gone on for some time so I ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 708 c219GC (Link to this contribution) Are we straying into the next set of amendments? If we are, we might miss the opportunity to seek co...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c223-4GC (Link to this contribution) I fully appreciate my noble friend’s concerns when it comes to the impact of this, and that is exact...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c224GC (Link to this contribution) Yes. The case was made in that powerful speech. It was a good example of how an empowered patient co...
Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 708 c224GC (Link to this contribution) Would it be all right with the Committee if I do not stand up at this point?
Earl of Listowel | 708 c225-6GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his helpful and encouraging response, particularly about the pilots looking...
Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 708 c225GC (Link to this contribution) The interface between health and social care is very interesting. While we are on this, I seize the ...
Baroness Cumberlege | 708 c208-11GC (Link to this contribution) I have coupled my name with the amendment tabled by my noble friend Lord Howe, and I declare an inte...
Baroness Barker | 708 c203-6GC (Link to this contribution) We now come to a series of groups of amendments which are all about a crucial part of the Bill; name...
Baroness Emerton | 708 c216GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak on two issues: learning disabilities, which my noble friend Lady Campbell raised; and ...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 708 c213-4GC (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with what has been said about supporting the idea in principle of direct payments i...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 708 c213GC (Link to this contribution) Once again, as the non-professional, I shall speak on behalf of the consumers of these services. I l...
Baroness Barker | 708 c228-9GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, have amendments in this group. The noble Earl, Lord Howe, is absolutely right to focus atten...
Baroness Barker | 708 c226-7GC (Link to this contribution) I thank all noble Lords who not only took part in this debate but proved my point. There is a great ...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 708 c232GC (Link to this contribution) I return briefly to the issue that I raised earlier in our debate on Amendment 54, which refers to s...
Subjects
Disability Care homes Carers Costs Advisory services Complementary medicine Direct payments Fraud Health services Finance NHS Medical treatments Patients Pilot schemes Payments Mental capacity Primary care trusts Mental health services Midwives Maternity services Training Social services Personal budgets
Legislation
Health Bill (HL) 2008-09
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk