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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Monday, 11 May 2009, in the House of Lords.

Business Rate Supplements Bill

Business Rate Supplements Bill. Lords Committee stage first day. Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to. Grand Committee held in the Moses Room.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
710 c285-332GC 
Session
2008-09
Department
Department for Communities and Local Government
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Deposited Paper DEP2009-1429
Thursday, 14 May 2009
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Earl Cathcart | 710 c307-8GC (Link to this contribution) Obviously, all sides of the House support Crossrail, but I have heard arguments that the project and...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c290GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 2 2: Clause 1, page 1, line 7, at end insert— "(2A) Regulations may amend subsection (2) ...
Show all contributions (79)
Earl Cathcart | 710 c288-9GC (Link to this contribution) I was not going to speak to this amendment, but before I do so I declare my interests. I have been a...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c287-8GC (Link to this contribution) I welcome everyone to the Grand Committee on a shorter Bill than the last one, but no less significa...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c314-5GC (Link to this contribution) I shall also speak to Amendments 24 and 26 to 31. Before I do so and to ensure that no one spends ti...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c317-9GC (Link to this contribution) I do not have that degree of detail in my briefing, but I will say more about loans in due course. I...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c323GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness's comments on Amendments 9 and 10 were helpful. I had not intended Amendment 32 t...
Lord Bates | 710 c309-10GC (Link to this contribution) I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this short debate on these amendments. I think I get ...
Lord Bates | 710 c313-4GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister’s response was very helpful, as usual, and I am very grateful for other contributions t...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 710 c314GC (Link to this contribution) A Division has been called in the Chamber. Normally we would wait for 10 minutes for the Division to...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c311GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment puzzled me because it seemed to be inconsistent with the noble Lord’s other concerns b...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c311-3GC (Link to this contribution) This is an important amendment, which gives me an opportunity to explore the issues raised by additi...
Lord Bates | 710 c296-7GC (Link to this contribution) I would like to press the Minister a little further on this because it might be the only chance we g...
Lord Bates | 710 c301GC (Link to this contribution) I will be brief as all that needed to be said on this issue has been said far more eloquently and su...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c302GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that we have not been able to. An awful lot of work has had to be done. This policy cross...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c302GC (Link to this contribution) I have every sympathy with the Minister and DCLG officials for the difficulties that they may be enc...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 710 c303-4GC (Link to this contribution) I am a warm supporter of the present structure of the government of London. When I first congratulat...
Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen | 710 c285GC (Link to this contribution) If there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, this Committee will adjourn as soon as t...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c286GC (Link to this contribution) As this is the first opportunity to speak in Grand Committee, I should declare my interest as joint ...
Earl Cathcart | 710 c293GC (Link to this contribution) I have one question about Clause 1(2). Can a levying authority exempt certain areas from paying a bu...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c314GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 6 6: Clause 3, page 2, line 10, at end insert— "( ) Such sums may be used for capital and...
Lord Bates | 710 c315-6GC (Link to this contribution) From our perspective, we find much in the later amendments in this group with which we would agree a...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c323-5GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendments 15, 16, 17, 34, 36, 42, 44, 46 and 47, and I am quite alarmed that ...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c328-30GC (Link to this contribution) Noble Lords opposite should not apologise for the incoherence of their amendments because the argume...
Earl Cathcart | 710 c327-8GC (Link to this contribution) The whole ethos of the Bill is to try to take the business community with the schemes and to try to ...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 710 c332GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn.
Lord Bates | 710 c304GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 4 4: Clause 2, page 1, line 17, leave out paragraphs (b) to (d)
Earl Cathcart | 710 c308GC (Link to this contribution) I think it is slightly the other way around. It is because local authorities have been able to raise...
Earl Cathcart | 710 c308GC (Link to this contribution) I am going on, I am afraid. There is a temptation, which people have foreseen, that the Government m...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c308GC (Link to this contribution) We are straying into the principle of additionality, in some ways. I hope it will satisfy the noble ...
Lord Tope | 710 c306GC (Link to this contribution) It must be self-evident, in view of the amendment that I have just spoken to, that we cannot support...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c308-9GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord, Lord Bates, withdraws his amendment, it is hardly for me to leap to the defen...
Lord Bates | 710 c310-1GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 5, which is in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Cathcart, very much is an argument...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 710 c311GC (Link to this contribution) I remind the Committee that if the amendment were to be agreed to, I would be unable to call Amendme...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 710 c300-1GC (Link to this contribution) I had not intended to join in the debates today because my interest in the Bill, which the Minister ...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c297-8GC (Link to this contribution) It has been an interesting debate. Both noble Lords who spoke raised interesting questions. I wrote ...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c297GC (Link to this contribution) As with most of the language that we have to contend with when we are making policy, sometimes the c...
Lord Tope | 710 c298-9GC (Link to this contribution) Well, I enjoyed them, even if my noble friend did not. It was probably my enjoyment that she enjoyed...
Lord Tope | 710 c299-300GC (Link to this contribution) I was speaking of the very important role that London borough councils now play in partnership with ...
Lord Tope | 710 c298GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment stands in my name and that of my noble friend. It seems to have been the practice this...
Lord Bates | 710 c302GC (Link to this contribution) This map has now gained some intrigue, because the Minister said that issues were still to be resolv...
Lord Tope | 710 c303GC (Link to this contribution) All that needs to be said has been said about the very unsatisfactory situation in which we find our...
Lord Bates | 710 c285-6GC (Link to this contribution) It is perhaps appropriate to repeat and to put on the record my interests as a director of three bus...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c290-2GC (Link to this contribution) I also speak to Amendments 7, 12 and 65. I thought that Amendment 2 would give rise to a spate of lo...
Lord Bates | 710 c292-3GC (Link to this contribution) In general, we regard this group of amendments to be helpful in drawing attention to a number of key...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c319GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 8 8: Clause 3, page 2, line 26, leave out "The Greater London Authority" and insert "A le...
Lord Bates | 710 c320-1GC (Link to this contribution) I can be fairly brief as we have established our position on this. We would have great difficulty in...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c319-20GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendments 9, 10 and 32. I appreciate that Clause 3(5), which would be amended...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c323GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness. I thought that I understood London, but I am puzzled why Clause...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c323GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 4: Conditions for imposing a BRS Amendment 13 13: Clause 4, page 3, line 21, leave out "whe...
Earl Cathcart | 710 c331GC (Link to this contribution) There is one thing. I asked about the idea of manipulating the cost estimate so that a vote would ha...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c332GC (Link to this contribution) I like the idea of Hansard having illustrations, but let us not go as far as cartoons. On the Minis...
Lord Bates | 710 c304-6GC (Link to this contribution) These amendments basically follow an argument I touched on when speaking to Amendment 3, which is ou...
Lord Tope | 710 c304GC (Link to this contribution) I will resist the temptation to renew the debate from 25 years ago, much though I might love to on a...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c307GC (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Tope. I could not improve on what he said. It was an...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c308GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, but the principle applies. It is not a question of substituting funding from one source to anot...
Lord Bates | 710 c310GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 3: Use of money raised by a BRS Amendment 5 5: Clause 3, page 2, line 7, leave out subsecti...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c293-6GC (Link to this contribution) I shall have to leave that question until the end of the debate. That will give me time to think abo...
Lord Tope | 710 c298GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 2: Levying authorities Amendment 3 3: Clause 2, page 1, line 16, at end insert— "( ) a Lond...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c301GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I can add much to what has been said but I offer good news to the noble Lord who...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 710 c301-2GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has told the Committee a rather astonishing fact. It has been known that this Com...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c302GC (Link to this contribution) No, I accept that. The whole intention is that it should be as useful as possible. It is the way of ...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c302-3GC (Link to this contribution) No, I do not think I need to say anything about that. It is just that when one is working across gov...
Lord Bates | 710 c285GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 1: Power to impose a BRS Amendment 1 1: Clause 1, page 1, line 5, at end insert— "( ) A lev...
Lord Bates | 710 c289-90GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to noble Lords for their comments, to which I shall refer in turn. I thank the noble B...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c289GC (Link to this contribution) Local authorities and business together will have to show in their partnership document, the prospec...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c286-7GC (Link to this contribution) Yet. I was going to say that the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, was a third, but I mean the first; he is i...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c316-7GC (Link to this contribution) This is a useful amendment that will allow us to dig under the surface of the Bill. I shall take Ame...
Lord Bates | 710 c317GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister’s phrasing seems to suggest that she is open to the possibility of a local authority ch...
Baroness Hamwee | 710 c319GC (Link to this contribution) I had better take advantage of the respite from the noise of the helicopters but I hear that it is n...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c323GC (Link to this contribution) I did not address that point—I addressed it indirectly in my general statement—but I will write to t...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c321-3GC (Link to this contribution) Amendments 8 to 10 would allow all levying authorities to pass their BRS revenues on to any other bo...
Lord Bates | 710 c325-7GC (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak to Amendments 14, 35 and 37 standing in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Cat...
Earl Cathcart | 710 c330GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the noble Baroness could educate me. Does the BIDs scheme involve voting on all BIDs or just...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c330-1GC (Link to this contribution) I will have to take advice on that. The answer is yes, it will be all businesses. I hope that the no...
Baroness Andrews | 710 c331-2GC (Link to this contribution) I do not share the noble Earl’s view that that is likely. Frankly, it is not in anyone’s interests t...
Subjects
Business Housing Greater London Discounts Economic growth Local government Local government finance Public consultation Business rates Regional planning and development Business improvement districts
Legislation
Business Rate Supplements Bill 2008-09
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk