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Debate on bill and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Wednesday, 7 April 2010, in the House of Commons, led by Stephen Timms. The answering member was Mark Hoban.

Finance Bill

Finance Bill. Second reading debate. Agreed on question. Committee stage debate. Amendments considered and agreed. Bill reported with amendments. Third reading. Agreed on question and Bill passed.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
508 c1058-105 
Session
2009-10
Department
Treasury
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Third reading
Report stage
Second reading
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Greg Hands | 508 c1104-5 (Link to this contribution) I am not giving way, as I have only two minutes. Those businesses will also be appalled that the Go...
Greg Hands | 508 c1103-4 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid to say that the hon. Gentleman was not there for the negotiations. I am going to mention...
Show all contributions (145)
Stephen Timms | 508 c1103 (Link to this contribution) I commend the amendments and support the clause standing part of the Bill.
Paul Keetch | 508 c1103 (Link to this contribution) May I put on record the fact that it was the Liberal Democrats who established the cider caucus in t...
Greg Hands | 508 c1103 (Link to this contribution) You will recall, Sir Alan, that at this stage of the Finance Bill last year, I spoke for one hour an...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 508 c1095 (Link to this contribution) That returns me to the point that this is deliberately a limited Finance Bill, because of the wash-u...
Lord Redwood | 508 c1095 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister explain why not a single Labour Back Bencher has attended most of the debate? No s...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 508 c1095 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that our Back Benchers can speak for themselves on why they were not here. They have certa...
William Cash | 508 c1095-6 (Link to this contribution) But one effective way of derailing the recovery would be gravely to underestimate the net debt and t...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 508 c1094 (Link to this contribution) I do not agree with that. The car scrappage scheme had nothing to do with the public sector, and it ...
Stewart Hosie | 508 c1094-5 (Link to this contribution) I am curious about this argument about manufacturing. Gross fixed capital formation is down—it has b...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 508 c1095 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will explain why we still have the sixth largest manufacturing industry i...
Stewart Hosie | 508 c1095 (Link to this contribution) I could not agree more. We should support the new industries. There was an announcement about the ga...
Nicholas Winterton | 508 c1097 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady respond to the serious and growing problems of rural areas, such as the hill coun...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 508 c1097-8 (Link to this contribution) We recognise the difficulties faced by people in rural areas who are dependent on the car. I say to ...
David Gauke | 508 c1099-100 (Link to this contribution) Given the time, I shall be brief. Clause 2 relates to the main rate of corporation tax. I was rerea...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1100 (Link to this contribution) I was rather hoping that the hon. Member for Macclesfield (Sir Nicholas Winterton) might intervene i...
Greg Hands | 508 c1098 (Link to this contribution) Is the Exchequer Secretary saying that those letters from the beer industry argue that duty should b...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 508 c1098 (Link to this contribution) Certainly the letters that I have had from the beer industry, including small brewers, express the o...
David Gauke | 508 c1100 (Link to this contribution) The Minister mentioned the EEF. Let me point out to him that the EEF has welcomed the discussions we...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1100 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman has been talking to the Engineering Employers Federation, altho...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1100 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman also talked about "streamlining", whatever that might mean. Perhaps he is about t...
Mark Hoban | 508 c1100-1 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to detain the Committee for too long on clause 6, as we have already expressed our ple...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1101 (Link to this contribution) In answer to the hon. Gentleman's first question, the issue would be whether the person who had prev...
Mark Hoban | 508 c1101 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has clarified my first point about the situation in which a gift has been made to help ...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1102 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 1, page 6, line 42, at end insert:
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 508 c1102 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to consider Government amendments 2 and 3.
Stephen Timms | 508 c1102 (Link to this contribution) Clause 9 increases alcohol duty rates charged on beer, wine and spirits by 2 per cent. above inflati...
Nicholas Winterton | 508 c1102 (Link to this contribution) I clearly declare an interest: I am a long-time supporter of the Campaign for Real Ale, and I was th...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1102-3 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that we have been joined on the Front Bench by my right hon. Friend the Minister for ...
Lembit Opik | 508 c1103 (Link to this contribution) The Minister will no doubt be aware that the cause of the closure of many pubs is not necessarily ta...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 508 c1103 (Link to this contribution) Order. I should say to the Committee that we have very little time left and this debate is supposed ...
Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 508 c1071 (Link to this contribution) I will not go into the technicalities, but we need to be straight about the balance sheets and to ta...
Lord Redwood | 508 c1071 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman clarify what the Liberal Democrats think about the wisdom of making cuts of ...
Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 508 c1071 (Link to this contribution) The evidence from the economy is that we are just about there. If we spend too much, we build up deb...
Stewart Hosie | 508 c1071 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right about timing and the balance of the way in which we tackle the deficit, ...
Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 508 c1071 (Link to this contribution) We have set out a series of tax changes that should be in the Bill. They are largely designed to mov...
Speaker | 508 c1071 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind all hon. Members of my earlier comments about the fact that we are discussing the Fi...
Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 508 c1072-3 (Link to this contribution) If I were to give way to the hon. Gentleman, I think that we would both be reminded that we are alre...
David Gauke | 508 c1071 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Redwood | 508 c1076 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree. I favour lower taxes because they are fair and raise more revenue, and I think the...
Lord Redwood | 508 c1075 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, that has defeated me, and my hon. Friend is right to point out that that is exactly the kind...
William Cash | 508 c1075 (Link to this contribution) Just to take one example, which I hope to come on to in a moment, does my right hon. Friend, or coul...
Nicholas Winterton | 508 c1080 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has just talked about the amount that individual first-time buyers might need to ...
Stewart Hosie | 508 c1079-80 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr. Redwood) is right about the lack of time to debate and scru...
Lord Redwood | 508 c1077-9 (Link to this contribution) Madam Deputy Speaker, I do not think my hon. Friend was in the Chamber for your very wise advice to ...
Nicholas Winterton | 508 c1077 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has just mentioned the imminent increase in national insurance, although it is ...
Stewart Hosie | 508 c1080 (Link to this contribution) I would not want to set the business model for any bank or building society. If there was a particul...
Robert Smith | 508 c1063 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mark Hoban | 508 c1063 (Link to this contribution) "Four hours for all the stages of the Finance Bill from start to finish…is…a most extraordinary prec...
Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 508 c1068-9 (Link to this contribution) It seems rather extraordinary for the hon. Member for Fareham (Mr. Hoban) to criticise the Governmen...
Mark Hoban | 508 c1064-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a helpful intervention, as he so often does on these occasions. I should say to...
Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 508 c1069 (Link to this contribution) We played a fundamental role in respect of the cider duty, in that we campaigned against it. I imagi...
Mark Hoban | 508 c1069 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman therefore accept that his party played no role in the amendments to the cide...
Robert Smith | 508 c1063 (Link to this contribution) Let me return the hon. Gentleman to his complaint about the amount of time allotted to the Bill. Whe...
Mark Hoban | 508 c1063 (Link to this contribution) I will happily give way to the hon. Friend of the hon. Member for Twickenham.
William Cash | 508 c1064 (Link to this contribution) I hope that my hon. Friend will take what I am about to say in good part. As far as I am aware, our ...
Mark Hoban | 508 c1063-4 (Link to this contribution) The point is that even four hours would not have been enough to cover 72 clauses—yet back in 1992, t...
Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 508 c1069 (Link to this contribution) That is rather different from proposing a substantial increase in cider duty, for which the Conserva...
Greg Hands | 508 c1069 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way, but we really must clear up his mix-up on the cider duty....
Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 508 c1070 (Link to this contribution) I will in a moment, but I want to make the point that the decisions we are debating—about which taxe...
Lord Redwood | 508 c1070 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Speaker | 508 c1070 (Link to this contribution) Order. I have allowed the hon. Gentleman some latitude, because this is a Second Reading, but it is ...
Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 508 c1070 (Link to this contribution) I would go a little further. It is not just a matter of those forms of debt, but debt in the wider e...
William Cash | 508 c1069 (Link to this contribution) I do not know what the position of the hon. Gentleman's party is on the actual debt, but to provide ...
Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 508 c1069 (Link to this contribution) I think that we should move on from the knockabout, as it does no one any particular justice. I wan...
Nicholas Winterton | 508 c1088 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief, but I want to put a question to the two Ministers on the Treasury Bench.
Nicholas Winterton | 508 c1088 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to put this question to my hon. Friend, but if he is unable to answer it, I intend to try...
Charles Walker | 508 c1088 (Link to this contribution) This must not turn into a love-in, as we have serious matters before us, but I shall miss my hon. Fr...
William Cash | 508 c1086 (Link to this contribution) I certainly agree with that. I mentioned the unhelpful and damaging increase in road tax and fuel ta...
William Cash | 508 c1086 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend asks whether it was worth it, and we shall soon find out. I want to ask the Minister ...
William Cash | 508 c1086-7 (Link to this contribution) She says that of course she has seen it, but in that case she should have improved it. The answer th...
Charles Walker | 508 c1087 (Link to this contribution) Thank you for calling me to speak in this debate, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am surrounded by four excell...
William Cash | 508 c1087 (Link to this contribution) Earlier in the debate, when my hon. Friend was not here, I ventured to suggest that we should consid...
Charles Walker | 508 c1087-8 (Link to this contribution) I agree. It is absolutely impossible, even for well-educated people who think they might have an und...
Evan Harris | 508 c1093 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that I could not be here earlier, but I want to raise an issue about one of the Bill's pr...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 508 c1092-3 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to close the Second Reading debate on this year's Finance Bill. I thank all hon. Me...
David Gauke | 508 c1092 (Link to this contribution) Of course, the other place does not have a view on the Bill. It is a matter of timing, and I am plea...
William Cash | 508 c1089 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way. My constituency is close to his, and I sha...
Nicholas Winterton | 508 c1089 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I need respond to my hon. Friend, who has made the point very clearly. I agree w...
Nicholas Winterton | 508 c1088-9 (Link to this contribution) I am amazed that there is not a single Labour Back Bencher in the Chamber for the Second Reading of ...
Lord Redwood | 508 c1092 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friends on getting those unpleasant taxes out of the Bill. Will my hon. Frien...
David Gauke | 508 c1089-91 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to wind up this relatively brief Second Reading debate on behalf of the Oppos...
Lembit Opik | 508 c1092 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for not having been here for the entire debate. Does the hon. Gentleman agree with me th...
William Cash | 508 c1083 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, that is completely true. I do not claim to be an expert economist by any means, but I am cer...
Speaker | 508 c1083 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Member must now focus his remarks on the Finance Bill that is currently before the H...
William Cash | 508 c1083 (Link to this contribution) I entirely understand and accept the point you make, Madam Deputy Speaker. I also have to say that I...
Lord Redwood | 508 c1081 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman, but can he confirm that while tax is now two thirds of the pump pri...
Stewart Hosie | 508 c1081 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is right about the impact of currency fluctuations. He is right that duty a...
William Cash | 508 c1081-2 (Link to this contribution) We have had an object lesson today in the problems relating to the necessity for radical parliamenta...
Lord Redwood | 508 c1083 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend, like me, wonder who the Government think they are fooling? The markets are alre...
Charles Walker | 508 c1080 (Link to this contribution) I would like to raise my concerns in support of the hon. Gentleman's speech. With the price at about...
Stewart Hosie | 508 c1080-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. As we have seen those rises in the barrel price—something li...
Nicholas Winterton | 508 c1085 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend rather quickly passed over the problems of rural communities and farming. I believe t...
Mark Hoban | 508 c1085 (Link to this contribution) The Exchequer Secretary said that these formulae related to pensions, but of course the formula that...
William Cash | 508 c1085 (Link to this contribution) It did indeed, and I am so glad that my hon. Friend made that point. I was correctly referring to th...
William Cash | 508 c1085 (Link to this contribution) Part of the trouble is that the ordinary man in the street—the kind of person whom we meet during a ...
Lord Redwood | 508 c1085 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether my hon. Friend will be able to catch the eye of the Exchequer Secretary, because I ...
William Cash | 508 c1085 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to embarrass the Exchequer Secretary. I am sure that she does not have the foggiest id...
Nicholas Winterton | 508 c1084 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend could describe the situation even more clearly. The Government believe in continuing ...
William Cash | 508 c1084-5 (Link to this contribution) I pay tribute to my hon. Friend, who is leaving the House at the election, for continually and right...
William Cash | 508 c1084 (Link to this contribution) Indeed: you just run out of money. I strongly believe, given the inadequacy of this Bill, that the G...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1061 (Link to this contribution) They key benefit of the changes we are making lies in providing to Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs...
Mark Hoban | 508 c1061 (Link to this contribution) On that last point about the information exchange agreements and the jurisdictions that are not cove...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1062 (Link to this contribution) It is important for everybody to comply with their tax obligations. Anyone who is in doubt about wha...
William Cash | 508 c1062 (Link to this contribution) In the context of his consideration of Finance Bills over the last year or so, will the Minister exp...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1062 (Link to this contribution) I do not support the proposal for a flat tax. I know that the shadow Chancellor once dabbled with th...
Lord Redwood | 508 c1062 (Link to this contribution) I cannot allow the Minister's last observation to go unchallenged. How does he explain the extraordi...
Stewart Hosie | 508 c1061 (Link to this contribution) Before the right hon. Gentleman moves on, he will remember that there was a debate last week about r...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1062-3 (Link to this contribution) I refer the right hon. Gentleman to an experience that he will remember very well—that of the recess...
David Gauke | 508 c1094 (Link to this contribution) On the subject of unemployment, what assessment has the Treasury made of the impact on employment ca...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 508 c1093-4 (Link to this contribution) I can only repeat that we take tobacco smuggling very seriously, which is why an amendment is being ...
Evan Harris | 508 c1093 (Link to this contribution) That is very helpful, but I remind the Minister that under section 106 of the 2000 Act—I raise the p...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 508 c1093 (Link to this contribution) It is unfortunate that the hon. Gentleman was not here for, and unable to contribute to, the Second ...
Nicholas Winterton | 508 c1094 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for seeking to respond to my direct questions to the Treasury Bench. W...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 508 c1094 (Link to this contribution) Of course I am not saying that unemployment does not matter in 2011. What I am saying is that if we ...
David Gauke | 508 c1094 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister saying that unemployment in 2010 matters, but it does not matter in 2011? She must h...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 508 c1094 (Link to this contribution) The national insurance increase will not come in until 2011. The whole point is that we will sustain...
William Cash | 508 c1058-9 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has just said, in answer to my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr. Redwood)...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1059-60 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I am, although I may have slightly misled the hon. Gentleman: the figures that I...
Mark Hoban | 508 c1060 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister explain why the one-off cost of implementation for the Government's pension changes...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1058 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. We have come through a very difficult time ...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1058 (Link to this contribution) I can give the right hon. Gentleman some of those figures, and we can perhaps return to individual f...
Lord Redwood | 508 c1058 (Link to this contribution) Before he sits down, will the Minister please supply the House with the figures showing what differe...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1061 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman raises an important matter. We have indeed reflected carefully on that point, as ...
Greg Hands | 508 c1060-1 (Link to this contribution) Just in case we do not get on to debate tobacco, will the Minister reassure the House that a proper ...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1060 (Link to this contribution) No; national insurance cannot be dealt with in a Finance Bill alongside other tax measures. It will ...
William Cash | 508 c1060 (Link to this contribution) On the question of national insurance, will the Minister be kind enough to explain to us where the r...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1060 (Link to this contribution) I do not have the figures in front of me but, as I said, we have been consulting people, as we shoul...
Mark Hoban | 508 c1060 (Link to this contribution) But can the Minister explain how he got it wrong by a factor of three? The amount has increased from...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1060 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will be aware that we have been in discussions with the industry, and that there ...
David Gauke | 508 c1092 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, there could be a serious impact on British tourism, which would be regrettable. That is why...
Greg Hands | 508 c1071 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman tell us what the savage cuts for which his party's leader has called might i...
Lord Redwood | 508 c1073-5 (Link to this contribution) I remind the House that I have declared in the Register of Members' Financial Interests the fact tha...
Stephen Timms | 508 c1101-2 (Link to this contribution) I think I can reassure the hon. Gentleman on that. If someone who had been living in their parents' ...
William Cash | 508 c1075-6 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that part of the problem is not just the complexity, but the consequ...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 508 c1085 (Link to this contribution) I was going to explain to the hon. Gentleman in my wind-up that these are formulae to value the defi...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 508 c1096-7 (Link to this contribution) I have had these exchanges with the hon. Gentleman before. We believe that we have set forth the rig...
Subjects
Corporation tax Capital investment Cider Income tax Excise duties Fuels Double taxation Economic situation Pensions National insurance contributions Taxation Tobacco Stamp duties Smuggling First time buyers Stamp duty land tax
Legislation
Finance Bill 2009-10
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk