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Committee proceeding and Debate on bill on Wednesday, 26 October 2011, in the House of Lords.

Welfare Reform Bill

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
731 c285-344GC 
Session
2010-12
Department
Department for Work and Pensions
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 731 c288-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, like others, I was absent from the last sitting of the Committee, unavoidably. I was havin...
Show all contributions (138)
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c333-4GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that reply. As we discussed earlier, we understand the need for the sort of...
Lord Freud | 731 c333GC (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for that, although I think in practice paragraph (d) allows a Government not...
Baroness Drake | 731 c334-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the purpose of this amendment is to exempt family-and-friend carers, who are raising a chi...
Baroness Drake | 731 c334GC (Link to this contribution) 51D: Clause 19, page 9, line 16, at end insert— ““(e) the claimant is a family and friends carer who...
Lord Skelmersdale | 731 c332GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, having been wonderfully rude about the first probing amendment of the noble Lord, Lord McK...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c331-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak also to the other two amendments in this group. They are straightforward pro...
Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 731 c332GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, just to correct my noble friend Lord Skelmersdale, it was the Delegated Powers and Regulat...
Lord Skelmersdale | 731 c333GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, may I come back to my noble friend the Minister? I totally—surprise, surprise—trust this G...
Lord Freud | 731 c332-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, noble Lords will be aware that we intend to use the power in subsection (2)(d) to establis...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c331GC (Link to this contribution) I should have known that, but I did not, so I thank the noble Earl. Nevertheless, we have had some h...
Earl of Listowel | 731 c331GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Baroness withdraws the amendment, I should have reminded your Lordships that the Ch...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c331GC (Link to this contribution) I am twitchy about one more thing, because I know that the Minister will say no. Although we are hap...
Lord Freud | 731 c331GC (Link to this contribution) It is my delight to be able to reassure the noble Baroness that those protections will remain.
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c331GC (Link to this contribution) 51CEF: Clause 19, page 9, line 16, leave out paragraph (d)
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c330GC (Link to this contribution) It is already the case that grandparents can mind a grandchild if they are a registered childminder,...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c331GC (Link to this contribution) This is getting better. I have one more question and I wonder if I can risk it. The Minister was als...
Lord Freud | 731 c330GC (Link to this contribution) Let me clarify that for the record. The protection includes couples as well.
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c330GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response, and the speakers who contributed to the debate. I e...
Baroness Sherlock | 731 c330GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am aware that irony plays rather poorly in Hansard. Just to clarify for the record, I am...
Lord De Mauley | 731 c344GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I know that noble Lords will want to go on but I have to disappoint them. I suggest that t...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c343GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that response. I am happy to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 51...
Lord Freud | 731 c342-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, given the time, rather than try to rush the next amendment, instead of writing I will go t...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c341-2GC (Link to this contribution) This is another set of amendments that are probing amendments only, and should be straightforward fo...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c341GC (Link to this contribution) 51EZA: Clause 19, page 9, line 36, at end insert— ““( ) Regulations shall prescribe how these regula...
Baroness Drake | 731 c341GC (Link to this contribution) At the request of the Minister that I wrap up, I duly wrap up, and agree to withdraw my amendment. ...
Lord Freud | 731 c341GC (Link to this contribution) If I can wrap up, in anticipation of the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, wrapping up: I take on board th...
Baroness Drake | 731 c340-1GC (Link to this contribution) First, I will respond to the comments made by the Minister. I fully recognise that he has shown a re...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c340GC (Link to this contribution) You are not allowed to demonstrate things in the House, but I now have to tear up my speech. I have ...
Baroness Sherlock | 731 c339-40GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have two brief points to make. I was delighted to hear the warmth of the Minister’s resp...
Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 731 c338-9GC (Link to this contribution) I very much welcome the positive response of the Minister and the fact that he has clearly been talk...
Lord Freud | 731 c337-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, without wishing to go against normal procedure, it might be valuable if I came in straight...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c318GC (Link to this contribution) I add a couple of lines to my noble friend’s eloquent introduction to this issue. What we know from ...
Earl of Listowel | 731 c318-21GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before I speak to my amendment in this group, Amendment 51FZA, I thank the Minister for as...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c322GC (Link to this contribution) Which one of those would the noble Lord suggest we junk?
Lord Newton of Braintree | 731 c322-3GC (Link to this contribution) There are too many hurdles in the amendment. In legal terms, although I am not a lawyer, it would be...
Lord McAvoy | 731 c321-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to speak in support of the noble Earl’s amendment. There are cuts in the tax ...
Lord Newton of Braintree | 731 c322GC (Link to this contribution) May I come in from my sedentary position? I ought to start by saying that, having been in another pa...
Baroness Drake | 731 c323-5GC (Link to this contribution) Absolutely, I can use the word ““provoked”” freely because that is what has led me to rise to speak....
Baroness Grey-Thompson | 731 c323GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to speak up for working parents because I am a working mother, and as noble L...
Baroness Drake | 731 c323GC (Link to this contribution) I was not going to come in on this amendment, but I feel moved to do so—
Earl of Listowel | 731 c328GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Baroness withdraws the amendment, I want to take this opportunity to thank the nobl...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c328GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, can the Minister give us an assurance that one possibility he could explore again is that ...
Baroness Sherlock | 731 c329GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I could suggest to the Minister that Jobcentre Plus could encourage the grandparen...
Lord Freud | 731 c329-30GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am really grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, for her imaginative way of mani...
Lord Freud | 731 c329GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there are two questions here. The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, asked whether our provision c...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c329GC (Link to this contribution) It is very interesting that the noble Lord should say that, because it was exactly the advice I had ...
Lord Haskel | 731 c329GC (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Earl going to be very long?
Earl of Listowel | 731 c329GC (Link to this contribution) Anna Freud demonstrated in her life’s work how complex child development is and how professionals wo...
Baroness Sherlock | 731 c325GC (Link to this contribution) I rise hesitantly, as the Minister got rather cross last time I got up, but I am brave. I was taking...
Lord Newton of Braintree | 731 c325GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will say a brief word to defend myself against this onslaught. I do not think that there...
Lord Freud | 731 c325-6GC (Link to this contribution) On that note, I shall take this opportunity to respond. My first point is that we are all in general...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c326GC (Link to this contribution) If they have good reason, we should listen to them.
Lord Freud | 731 c326-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am laughing at the memory of my own children’s disapproval of their minders. Jobcentre Plus does n...
Lord McAvoy | 731 c326GC (Link to this contribution) And the arrangements for going to school, with all the timings involved as well.
Lord Freud | 731 c326GC (Link to this contribution) That would be done through a conversation between the claimant and the adviser. Clearly, what is a r...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c316-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, again my education continues apace. I know that the Minister is a good man, that spring co...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c316GC (Link to this contribution) 51CED: Clause 18, page 9, line 3, at end insert— ““(e) the claimant having guaranteed and predictabl...
Lord Freud | 731 c315GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the best answer I can give on the whole area is to encourage us to wait until we get to th...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c315GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord makes a fair point and we will be perfectly happy to pick up the discussion on these ...
Earl of Listowel | 731 c298GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise for coming so late into this Committee debate. Earlier in the discussions on t...
Lord Freud | 731 c298GC (Link to this contribution) The first point I make to the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, is to assure her that full-time is not ...
Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 731 c292GC (Link to this contribution) Yes. Is there not an issue here in terms of the equality implications? How does the department see t...
Lord Freud | 731 c293-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wish to pick up the points raised by a number of noble Lords about how we manage ourselv...
Baroness Donaghy | 731 c292-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to raise a philosophical point about the Government wandering into the world ...
Lord Freud | 731 c298GC (Link to this contribution) No, my Lords. I am sure that the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, knows how the legislation works. That ...
Lord Freud | 731 c298-9GC (Link to this contribution) As I say, that will depend on the particular circumstances of that family. That is the point I am en...
Lord McAvoy | 731 c289-90GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, for drawing attention to that sort of matter because, with th...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c288GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wonder whether I could add to the burden of questions that the Minister will be facing. ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 731 c287-8GC (Link to this contribution) No, my Lords. The reason I added my last sentence and prevented the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, from ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c287GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment, as I explained, was a probing amendment and was not of itself meant to be taken liter...
Lord Skelmersdale | 731 c287GC (Link to this contribution) Can I just finish? The key question asked by the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, is to what extent there ...
Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 731 c291-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like briefly to follow up on that because this takes us into largely uncharted wat...
Baroness Drake | 731 c290-1GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment and come back to its detail; my noble friend indicated that it was...
Lord Wigley | 731 c290GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that I have attended every sitting of this Committee. I find it immensely frustrat...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c285GC (Link to this contribution) 51CDZA: Clause 15, page 7, line 10, leave out ““(or more paid work or better-paid work)””
Baroness Fookes | 731 c285GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Grand Committee is in session. If there is a Division in the Chamber, as Members will ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 731 c287GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, first of all, I should apologise to the Committee for not being here when it last discusse...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c285-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a probing amendment designed to focus on issues of in-work conditionality. We atta...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c314GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply, and all noble Lords who participated in this short deb...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c315GC (Link to this contribution) I wonder if I could come in on this. I absolutely see the dilemma and I can quite understand why you...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c314-5GC (Link to this contribution) It is a good move, because it is important. However, I do not think I can let the noble Lord get awa...
Baroness Sherlock | 731 c313GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may clarify something. I may have misheard the noble Lord and I apologise for delaying the...
Lord Freud | 731 c313GC (Link to this contribution) I will pick up on that last point from the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock. There may be special circu...
Lord Freud | 731 c313-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was finishing my response to the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock. We are fixing a broken s...
Lord Wigley | 731 c310GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may add briefly that I identify totally with the rural dimension that the noble Baroness h...
Lord Freud | 731 c311-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I start by expressing a degree of envy at the ability of the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, to...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c312-3GC (Link to this contribution) I have just a query for the Minister. What he is saying is wise. He understands that we fully suppor...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c309-10GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support my noble friend in particular on Amendment 51CEC, which is about the cost of tra...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c308-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 51CEC and 51CEE in this group, which probe Clauses 17 and...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c308GC (Link to this contribution) 51CEB: Clause 17, page 8, line 29, after ““locations”” insert ““which shall include consideration of...
Lord Skelmersdale | 731 c308GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I might interrupt here as I am interested in volunteering, having been a volunteer...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c308GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree with that and I am sure that we all would. I suppose it depends a little bit on th...
Lord Freud | 731 c307GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, work preparation requirements will be imposed only where it is appropriate in the circumst...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c307GC (Link to this contribution) 51CDC: Clause 16, page 7, line 28, at end insert— ““( ) The actions and time specified under subsect...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c307GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will be brief. The amendment is intended to ensure that actions taken by or on behalf of...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c306GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend says that it is all my fault; I am not sure I ever introduced anything like this, bu...
Lord Wigley | 731 c306GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord withdraws the amendment, which I suspect he was about to do, I return again to...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c304-5GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that and I understand his explanation of personal presentation. However, I ...
Lord Freud | 731 c305GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, clearly preparing for work shades across a number of aspects. Perhaps the most interesting...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c305GC (Link to this contribution) I understand that point, and I think we share an understanding of the benefits of those sorts of arr...
Lord Freud | 731 c305GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I cannot write in protections today but I give the assurance that this measure is intended...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c305GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for those comments and look forward to a fuller response on the protections lat...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c304GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation but I would like to press him on a few points. I s...
Lord Wigley | 731 c303GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister sits down, perhaps I may press that a little further. I am interpreting what he ...
Lord Freud | 731 c304GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, clearly there are circumstances where the main barrier to an individual getting work is an...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c299-300GC (Link to this contribution) It is always good to know that the noble Lord is behind me and I thank him for his kind words. I wan...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c299GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for his responses to a lot of detailed questions. I will just touch u...
Lord Wigley | 731 c302GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak briefly in relation to the third of the amendments that has been put forward to Clause...
Lord Freud | 731 c302-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, not all claimants will be required to carry out all or indeed any of the actions listed in...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c300GC (Link to this contribution) 51CDA: Clause 16, page 7, line 23, leave out paragraph (b)
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c300-2GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendments 51CEA and 51CDB. I start with the latter. This started out as a sim...
Baroness Sherlock | 731 c296-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I could say a word. I am sorry to intervene. However, having been to the briefing ...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c298GC (Link to this contribution) I do apologise, as I know the Minister has taken care to answer my noble friend. Does that mean that...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c298GC (Link to this contribution) How then do you avoid the question posed by my noble friend of latch-key children if you cannot ensu...
Baroness Sherlock | 731 c310-1GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask one question. The noble Lord will be aware of this issue. We have heard about it f...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c307-8GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply and will certainly withdraw the amendment. One point pressed on u...
Lord Freud | 731 c306GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, soothe fears but also put this matter into context. We are essentially importing the existing a...
Lord Freud | 731 c304GC (Link to this contribution) At the risk of the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, saying that we have not developed the whole system, I ...
Lord Freud | 731 c304GC (Link to this contribution) Aphrodite was in the seashell. I think Athena was the daughter of Metis, who was swallowed by Zeus, ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c299GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was responding to the Minister’s reply and saying that I am sure we are all glad to hear...
Lord McAvoy | 731 c326GC (Link to this contribution) How will those applications be checked? Will there be a system to verify that what the claimant says...
Lord Freud | 731 c326GC (Link to this contribution) I take it that the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, means checking that the claimant is working and using ch...
Subjects
Childcare Carers Costs Academic year Employment Jobseeker's allowance Families Interviews Jobcentre Plus Grandparents Low incomes Pay Part-time employment Lone parents Working hours Universal credit Transport Social security benefits Welfare tax credits Self-employed Employment and support allowance Kinship care
Legislation
Welfare Reform Bill 2010-12
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk