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Budget (No.2) (Northern Ireland) Order 2005

My Lords, I will do my best to address the issues that have been raised. On those issues that I cannot address satisfactorily, I will write to noble Lords. I know that writing is second-best, but even when writing, letters are still read back later because they were not quite right. However, I shall do my best to address the general thrust of the varied issues that were raised. That is the beauty of the Budget: anything can be raised, which may or may not be relevant to the figures. I will try to go through the issues in order. I may have to jump about a bit, but in some cases I will have to write because issues go across departments. The budget is set for 11 departments. Someone asked a question about the voluntary sector, but I cannot have those figures because every department would be involved in that one way or another, so I probably would not have a global figure. Nevertheless, I will look to see what we can supply. In respect of the matter that I raised in my opening speech about the overspending in the Department of Education, there was no other effect on other public services of the teachers’ superannuation scheme. I assure noble Lords that steps have been taken to ensure that it does not arise again. The matter was subject to the Public Accounts Committee. The noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, said that the Review of Public Administration had been going on for a while; it has been going on for far too long. In fact, tomorrow I will meet all five major parties for them to come to tell me their views—separately unfortunately, but that is the way of the world. The consultation closes on 30 September. We will get written submissions, because through the document each chapter poses one or more questions to guide views. It will close on 30 September and that is it; there is no requirement or need for an extension. I would not support an extension, and I would not advise the Secretary of State to support it. We are committed to making decisions on the way forward—although it will not be instant because some of it will require legislation—around the turn of the year. People deserve a better system of administration than they have now. There is no question about that; it has been accepted and that is why there has been such a lengthy consultation. It has gone on for some two and a half years altogether. I certainly do not want to pre-empt anything. We have a consultation, and we genuinely want to listen. It does not just affect local government; it affects the health service, education and the interface between local government and the government of Northern Ireland. Nevertheless, we want to go forward—there can be no excuses. I have said to local government representatives—and this may be helpful—that frankly they are more likely to get more powers the fewer bodies there are. There are 26 authorities in local government. Powers are extremely limited; they are not at all equivalent in any way, shape or form to what happens in England. It is not my function to take from England what we have there and impose it in Northern Ireland; far from it. However, strong, independent local government providing good civic leadership and good governance practices will be better the smaller the numbers. Frankly, we would not want to disperse the powers to smaller bodies, because the capacity would not be there. I mean capacity; the capacity among the councillors, not just the officers. There will have to be some capacity building, there is no question about that, for those who take on what will be major roles on behalf of their fellow citizens with the reform of public administration. I am looking forward to playing a positive part in the decision-making that will flow from that. It will require a lot of change by a lot of people, and it will save a lot of money. I do not have the figures off the top of my head but they are considerable sums, which will not come back to the Treasury; they will be put into services for the people of Northern Ireland. The noble Lord also asked about the strategic future of the health service. My colleague responsible for the health service, Shaun Woodward, has made some announcements. I am not putting words into his mouth, but he has been appalled at what he has discovered in the inadequacy of the service and the high waiting lists. Given the amount of money that has been pumped in there, compared to what is happening in England, we are not getting good service for the people of Northern Ireland. They are getting less for more money, and that is completely unacceptable—and it will change. We will be looking at the health situation as part of the Review of Public Administration, but it does not have to be held up by it—maybe. People have got to face up to this issue. I pay enormous tribute to those who are working in the health service at the sharp end; the doctors, nurses, bottle-washers, cleaners, the people who turn the engines on. That is probably not where the problem is; the problem is elsewhere. Nevertheless, this issue has got to be taken seriously. In 2005–06, the increase on current spending on health will be more than 9 per cent, so it is not a question of starving the health service of money. I have certain weaknesses in covering all the departments, because I am not as up to speed as I would like to be on all 11. There are some areas of nuance and detail that I dare not muse about, because I would drop myself right in it—education is one of those. It is incredibly complicated, whether in England or elsewhere. One can be out of date as matters are on the move, and I freely admit that I have to be really careful. The new arrangements for the review of post-primary education are not about imposing a ““one size fits all”” approach; I want to make that absolutely clear. They are not about simply abolishing grammar schools or introducing postcode selection; they are about providing the best education—a better education—for all of our young people. I am not in favour of the dogma ruling the policy—far from it. It is the output that counts. If you get it wrong you cannot really go back to youngsters and say, ““We will give you another five years””. They have gone; they have gone through the system, so we must get it right. I am not claiming that this has been done, but we must not use young people as guinea pigs for experiments. We have to get a better system, but it is not about the Ministers currently responsible imposing the dogma.