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Equality Bill [HL]

It may be of convenience to the Committee if we discuss my amendment at the same time as it covers virtually the same point. I agree with my noble friend Lady Miller; I am deeply worried about the wording used in Clause 3. The wording is,"““the creation of a society””." Those are huge powers—to create a society in which various things are going to happen. As my noble friend said, it is not for quangos to make society and not for the Government to create a society. She said that it was for Parliament to create a society. Actually, I do not think that it is. It is people who make society. When you create a society, you mould people into a various shape. As I suggested at Second Reading, you mould people like dough and create a certain shape—the shape that the Government want, or that this body wants. I believe this is very dangerous stuff. History is littered with people who wanted to create various societies. One has only to consider Hitler. Before anyone jumps down my throat I am not suggesting for one moment that the Government are behaving in the same way as Hitler did. I am merely saying that, like many other people, Hitler tried to create various societies. As I say, this is a very dangerous measure. We are all individuals. We all have different perceptions, abilities and outlooks. Some people are good, some are bad, some are indifferent, some are clever, some are stupid, some are kind, some are arrogant and some are offensive. We all make up society. I do not think that we want to be moulded into a society of someone else’s choice. At Second Reading I expressed concern about this matter. The noble Baroness was kind enough to write to me. However, I am bound to tell her that her letter did not allay my fears at all. She wrote:"““You also expressed concerns about the CEHR’s fundamental duty set out in clause 3. Clause 3 describes the outcomes for society we want””." I return to the point made by my noble friend; namely, that I do not think it is right for governments or quangos to create societies. You can have ideas and you can encourage the carrying out of those ideas, but in my view you cannot create a society. I do not like the words ““fundamental duty””. I wanted to table an amendment to remove those words as they constitute a very strong expression. However, I was told that I could not do that. I thought that was very odd. I thought that if someone had written something into a Bill, someone else could take it out. Nevertheless I was told that that was not possible. I received a letter from the Public Bill Office that states:"““Clause headings can be changed during a bill’s passage. But such changes are made by the Public Bill Office, at the request of the draftsman of the bill, rather than by amendment. Changes may be necessary, for example, to take account of the effect of amendments, or to reflect changes in the structure of the bill””." Will the noble Baroness be good enough to consider that matter and perhaps have a word with the draftsman because it is one thing to say that there is a duty for the commission to take certain action, but it is another thing to say that there is a fundamental duty to do so. That goes very much deeper than just the word ““duty””. Clause 3 seeks to create a society in which various measures will be put in place. Those measures may constitute fine aspirations and I understand them as aspirations. However, they will become law and the commission will be told by law to create a society in which various measures will be put in place. I am concerned not merely about the intention of the Bill—that may be perfectly acceptable—but about the effect of it. Civil servants will read the law and will act according to what the law says and not according to what Ministers intend. I believe that they may come to very wrong conclusions. At Second Reading I referred to Barnabas House, a hostel in Norfolk which was threatened with having a grant of £150,000 withdrawn because there were bibles in patients’ rooms and grace was said before meals. An official said that people were being proselytised and that therefore the grant ought to be withdrawn. If a church cannot follow religious practices and encourage people to go down the path that that church considers is right, that is a great pity. However, the situation is much worse when officials threaten to withdraw grants from bodies that engage in religious practices. In fact, that did not happen at Barnabas House as, apparently, an accommodation has been reached. Religion will be kept low key. Bibles will be permitted in patients’ rooms but they must not say grace before meals. That kind of measure is very dangerous. I regret to tell the noble Baroness that I consider that these words ought to be looked at again.