---

Science and Technology

My Lords, this is a very wide-ranging and important debate, but because of time constraints, and because I have spoken too often this week already, I shall be focused and, I hope, brief as well. I want to pick up on this very important issue of what has happened in China, India and, increasingly, Brazil in relation to a matter about which I have considerable knowledge—Hammersmith Hospital and its links with Imperial College. Last year, I was in communication with the Department of Health and the Home Office because I knew that the long-term plan for Wormwood Scrubs was to phase it out, as the old Victorian prisons are being phased out. I make it absolutely clear that no one is talking of closing Wormwood Scrubs Prison tomorrow, but given that there is often a 10-year timescale for building new scientific hospitals, there is every reason to look at that site, which is right next to Hammersmith Hospital, and to consider developing it as a science-based hospital of world-class standing. I am not saying that Hammersmith Hospital is not already a hospital of world-class standing, because it is. For many years, it has been training very large numbers of Chinese doctors. Significantly, this year those numbers have dropped dramatically, by about 20 per cent. The reason is that China is now training its own doctors. We ought to be proud of the role that we have played in that, a role which we are playing for other countries too. Consequently, however, as big hospitals develop in China, India, Brazil and elsewhere and are matched only by those already existing in the United States, we need to focus on the fact that Europe has no similar science-based hospital of that size. We now have what could be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. If the Home Office is planning eventually to close Wormwood Scrubs, we should start thinking now about developing that site. I have been in touch with both Imperial College and Hammersmith Hospital and we have been discussing this over the past 12 months. When I was a Member of the House of Commons I also discussed the matter with Ministers there. At some stage in the fairly near future I might want to see the Minister about the proposal. There is great excitement about it because we recognise that one of the big advantages of Hammersmith Hospital is that it is sited in an area of special needs in terms of mixed-income groups and ethnicity. That is a very powerful driving factor which many other hospitals in many of the competing countries that I have mentioned do not share. In other words, if we can create a site for Hammersmith Hospital that is large enough to rival those in north America, China and India, we shall create a science-based hospital in Britain that also dominates the scene in Europe, as there is no comparable hospital in Europe. I put that down as a marker. I would like to see the Minister at some stage. I shall leave it at that, saving the Minister another five minutes of his time. I look forward to discussing the matter in more detail on another occasion.