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Terrorism Bill

I support my noble friend Lady Williams in moving the amendment to which I have put my name. The very wide definition of terrorism in the Terrorism Act 2000 means that anyone using serious violence against person or property to put pressure on their government is guilty of acts of terrorism. So however brutal the government and however justified the cause of the opponents, any serious act of violence by those opponents is defined as terrorism. That runs contrary to what many of us see in respect of a number of movements that have fought for freedom or independence in past years. The most obvious case is that of the African National Congress, as my noble friend said. There have been brutal dictatorships in the recent past; a very obvious example is the extremely brutal dictatorship of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. There are some brutal dictatorships still in existence—for example, in Myanmar or North Korea—and there well be more in future. We believe that it is wrong that those involved in fighting brutal tyrannies of that kind should face prosecution in the United Kingdom. Clause 19(2) gives some protection by requiring the consent of the Attorney-General and the Director of Public Prosecutions to any prosecution, but that is simply not good enough. It is wrong to have to rely on the good will of the Attorney-General and the DPP to avoid prosecution of people who are fighting legitimately for a cause that they and we believe to be right. So the Bill should be amended to exclude prosecutions in cases of support for acts carried out overseas when they are directed against an oppressive government. It is not of course easy to decide where that boundary lies. When drafting this amendment, I did so cautiously. Two conditions must be satisfied to rule out prosecution: first, that the government against whom the acts are directed must be guilty of,"““genocide or crimes against humanity or grave breaches of human rights””." It should be possible for a court to decide whether that condition is satisfied. Genocide and crimes against humanity are now pretty well defined in international law. Human rights are identified in a number of international documents—for example, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which the vast majority of countries have now ratified. The noble Lord, Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate made a fair point in saying that it was more difficult to decide what a grave breach of human rights is. The   test—although I admit it may be somewhat circular—may be to say that ““grave breaches”” are breaches that are so serious as to justify or at least excuse armed resistance in the views of reasonable people not connected with either side. I certainly do not feel that that would apply to the USA, serious as are the criticisms which a number of people including myself have made in recent years. The second condition is that the prospective defendant has not encouraged the killing of innocent civilians and is not a member of an organisation that kills or encourages the killing of innocent civilians. The killing of innocent civilians is wholly inexcusable in support of any cause, however justified that cause may be. That condition, of course, would not apply to the killing of agents of the government such as police or soldiers. This amendment would rule out prosecutions in cases where there is a clear justification for armed resistance but not in any other case. It would not, I believe, prevent ratification of the Council of Europe convention on terrorism. It seems to me that we must have something of this kind in order to prevent the risk of prosecution against people who are fighting in a cause that they believe is just and that reasonable people in this country would also see as just.