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Terrorism Bill

I cannot give an assurance that we will not return to this issue on Report, and I will explain very briefly why. I share the admiration of the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, for my noble friend Lord Goodhart’s extraordinary abilities as a draftsman, and I have little doubt that he may turn his mind further to this issue in the light of some of the criticisms that have been made. Let me put squarely to the Committee the reason why, if we can possibly find drafting that would meet the objections raised by the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, and by the noble Baroness, it is worth persisting. To be identified with oppressive governments, and to be identified with governments who offer no other channel of legitimate opposition—I repeat ““no other channel of legitimate opposition””, which cannot possibly be a proper description of the United States—is to put oneself in an alliance with those who oppose movements for change, movements for constitutional reform, and in some cases movements against some of the greatest methods of oppression that can be thought of. With great respect that is the answer to the noble Lord, Lord Mackenzie. My noble friend mentioned Iraq, but other cases come to mind. We have to find some way in which our opposition to terrorism is expressed as support for democracy, support for constitutional government and support for legitimacy. Frankly, I think like the United Nations Task Force, it is not beyond the capacity of human beings to make a distinction that shows that we are not taking the view that any government who exists should be supported. That can be done by a redefinition of terrorism, and the Minister has been kind enough in earlier debates on the Bill to make it plain that she recognises the limitations of the definition of terrorism in the Terrorism Act 2000. It is a very sweeping definition. I hope that she will therefore at least give a fair wind to the attempts to define terrorism in such a way as to exclude those acts that are involved in attempting to find a means of expressing opposition in those states and societies that make that legitimately impossible. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment, without a promise that we will not return to it. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 19 agreed to. Clause 20 [Interpretation of Part 1]: [Amendments Nos. 106 to 112 not moved.]