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Terrorism Bill

Like the noble Lord, Lord Harris, I am not legally qualified; but I advise him not to get too involved in the intricacies of Welsh political life. It can be most difficult. My worry is that terrorism is a moving target. One day we may very well be condemning terrorism or a particular terrorist group and the next day we may be treating with them. That is the case, for example, with the IRA. At one time it was the terrorist. We would have nothing to do with it. We did not want to talk or negotiate with it. But the next day we found that we could talk to it and that we could negotiate with it. Therefore, it ceased to be a terrorist organisation. I turn to Iraq. When it was in the interests of Britain and the United States to support Saddam Hussein when he was attacking Iran, those people who wanted to get rid of Saddam, who would have been considered by the Saddam regime to be terrorists, were considered to be terrorists by the British and the United States governments. Then, when the policy changed, anybody who wanted to get rid of Saddam Hussein was considered to be our friend. So difficulties can arise, because one day the terrorists are considered to be enemies and the very next day, or perhaps the next year, they will be considered to be friends. So, when building up legislation like this, we have to be careful with what we are doing. The noble Lord, Lord Peyton, put his finger on it: there is the law of unintended consequences. Ordinary citizens in this country are now beginning to feel the lash of some of the laws passed in this Parliament by the present—I suppose I have to call it a Labour—Government. We have to be careful about what we are doing and listen to those people, particularly those who are legally trained, because they have a lot of experience, when we are passing legislation such as this, which may prove difficult to ordinary citizens of this country. Before I finish, I say one more thing to the noble Baroness and the noble Lord sitting on the Front Bench. They have now been sitting there constantly for the past 24 hours and more. They could not have got home before midnight or one o’clock this morning. By the time that they have finished today and got home, they will almost have exceeded 48 hours. I hope that they are not in breach of the European Working Time Directive. They deserve congratulation nevertheless for putting in a magnificent stint on that Front Bench for so long.