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Terrorism Bill

We have rehearsed the arguments about the glorification of terrorism several times. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, is quite right when he says that extremists or extremist organisations may not be violent individuals or violent organisations. But incitement to violence through the glorification of terrorism does as much—arguably more—harm as the incitement to raise money for terrorist organisations. That was a point that my noble friend Lord Harris made. There is a real problem here. I am bound to say to the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, that his argument was a reductio ad absurdum. Organisations that call for the impeachment of the Prime Minister or that describe past activities, as Plaid Cymru’s site does, are clearly not through that action in and of themselves glorifying terrorism. I did not find the noble Lord’s argument difficult to understand any more than the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, did; I just found it completely and utterly unconvincing. It did not deal with the real world of what has happened in the past few years in relation to terrorism or with the problem that all of us recognise we have. I felt that the noble Lord, far from getting to grips with Clause 21, had lost touch with the very serious argument of how terrorists today are recruited and sustained.