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Terrorism Bill

My Lords, I think that we all accept that there may be ways in which past acts were glorified at the time. The problem, though, that the noble Baroness and all those who support her argument have failed to address is what one does about how young people today are recruited and how terrorist organisations are sustained through individuals and organisations that glorify terrorism. As noble Lords on the other side were not continually interrupted, perhaps, as apparently one of very few speaking in support of the clause, I might be allowed to finish a couple of my points at least. Through the glorification of their own deaths terrorists have a very potent recruiting sergeant, which they believe can not only gather in young people but also sustain the arguments for others to support them. Of course some terrorists may be directly recruited by individuals who incite them to participate in particular acts of terrorism but many, many others are recruited indirectly, through what can only be described as glorifying the terrorist acts of others. All too often, there are not recognisable structures or hierarchies of command and control in terrorist movements and among those who support them. They are movement-based and seek to inspire others to carry out acts portrayed not as the inevitable actions of military-based organisations but as the glorious actions of those inspired to act as martyrs, and those acts, in and of themselves, can be celebrated and enjoyed. I know that those who object to the clause—the proscription of organisations and movements—do so for the best of all motives, because they cite democracy, freedom of speech and human rights. But in any society we have to accept that there are some restrictions on our freedoms in those crucial areas where they are necessary for the greater security of innocent civilians. Such restrictions are the everyday currency of what one might call the ““social contract”” that we all enter into as part of a secure society. The restriction of prohibiting an organisation from glorifying or celebrating terrorism is a very small price to pay for making our buses, streets and trains safer places for people to carry out their daily business. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, cited the Terrorism Act 2000. I do not believe that that is enough. Of course organisations can be proscribed if they are concerned with terrorism or if they are involved in committing or participating in acts of terrorism. But we all know that that is not the same as glorifying terrorism, which is why the noble and learned Lord objects to the clause. Perhaps I may remind Members of the Committee that this was very specifically part of the Labour Party manifesto on which this Government were re-elected earlier this year. For a restriction to be a restriction to which we can all subscribe, it has to be proportionate. I accept that entirely. But I remind those Members of the Committee on the Liberal Democrat Benches that the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, in paragraph 52 of his report, said that this clause was,"““a proportional limitation on the freedom of association in relation to the . . . public good””." No one welcomes a restriction that is not necessary, but, sadly, some restrictions are. The public good has to come before the freedom of some organisations to celebrate the murder of innocent people.