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Terrorism Bill

I do not agree with that. I think that there are two problems: the problem of terrorism and the problem of causing a proportion of the population of this country to be set apart from the rest of us. In other words, if you proscribed organisations that are peace-loving and said to its members—and I was referring to the consequences—““If you are or have been a member of this organisation, you have committed an offence and you could, in a trial by indictment, be sent to prison for up to 10 years; or you could no longer support this organisation or address any of its meetings””, then there is a danger of causing people who would otherwise be perfectly law-abiding in their ordinary way to feel that the state is against them. That is what I am driving at. The problem of having a vague definition of promoting and encouraging terrorism, which means glorification in the form of ““praise or celebration”” without intention—and intention is the key, as the noble Lord, Lord Hurd, said—is that it will be a bad thing if it brings one into conflict with the criminal law and the possibility of punishment to the extent that this legislation provides. That is the purpose, as your Lordships will understand, of my opposing the clause.