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Terrorism Bill

This is the first occasion I can recall on which we are going to disagree with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, for the second time in the course of an afternoon. The noble and learned Lord described the procedure between arrest and charge as a ““purely administrative”” one. If the noble and learned Lord is right about that, why do we need a judge at any stage? He tells us that it is perfectly all right to have a district judge, but it is not perfectly all right to have a High Court judge. A district judge, however modest in rank, is, nevertheless, a judge. With respect to the noble and learned Lord, there is a certain illogicality in his argument for retaining a judge for a procedure that he regards as wholly inappropriate for the judicial process. The second reason why I am at odds, in the friendliest possible way, with the noble and learned Lord is because I do not think that this procedure is administrative. Someone being detained in prison without charge is someone who is experiencing a loss of freedom—a loss which goes to the root of our principles of constitutional liberty. He is in custody, but he has not the faintest idea why he is in custody. Therefore the longer he is held in custody in those circumstances, the more intense must be the examination every time he comes to court. I am conscious that I am supporting the Government’s position here. When we get to a certain number of days, we move from the district judge to the High Court judge. The degree of surveillance required, as the period of detention without charge grows longer, must be more demanding. So I think that the position in the Bill is exactly as it should be.