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Terrorism Bill

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Fraser, said that he had heard no justification at all for a period of detention of up to 90 days. All I can say is that he could not have listened to the noble Lord, Lord Imbert. The noble and learned Lord may have been in the Chamber but he clearly did not have his ears open. We heard what the noble Lord, Lord Imbert, said. No one in this Chamber or in the other place will vote with enthusiasm either for the Terrorism Bill or, indeed, for any period of detention without trial or charge. The whole point of the detention is to ensure that at its end there is a charge that you can apply—that is what the period is for. When I hear the noble Lord, Lord   Imbert, one of the most senior former police officers in this country, give us chapter and verse for justifying keeping someone detained for up to 90 days—not 90 days full stop, but up to 90 days—I am totally persuaded by what he said. We should listen to someone like the noble Lord, Lord Imbert, who has far more experience of policing than probably anyone else in this Chamber, although other distinguished senior former police officers are Members of this House. I said on Second Reading that, had I been at the other end of the Palace at the time, I would have supported the 90 days measure. I would have done it with some reluctance because one is always concerned about the infringement of people’s civil liberties. It might involve an innocent person being detained but it is a matter of judgment and balance. It is far less hazardous to detain an innocent person than to allow guilty people to get out of the country or escape critical examination and go on to perpetrate crimes of violence, or to support crimes of violence, in this country and elsewhere. It becomes a matter of balance and judgment; that is what we have to decide upon. I might add that the principle has already been conceded. To be perfectly honest, if you are innocent to be detained for one day is an infringement of your civil liberty. Members at the other end of the Palace have agreed a limit of 28 days. So it is not a matter of principle; it is a matter of balance and judgment. On the evidence that I have heard, and because I do not want to take risks with other people’s security, I support the amendment. It is all very well for people who sit in this Chamber; we are all protected and safe, but when I think of what is happening outside, I do not want to take risks with other people’s security and safety. On that basis, I entirely support this amendment.