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Terrorism Bill

My Lords, I support the proposal that subsection (3) be excluded. On balance, I also support the proposal by the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, to substitute a different subsection (3). The noble Lord’s subsection (3) is genuinely a definition clause and tells us what indirect encouragement is; on the other hand, the existing subsection (3) merely includes glorification, but leaves anything else available to be included if a court so holds. That is an important difference. Subsection (3) as it stands is largely unnecessary and, in so far as it is not unnecessary, it is highly undesirable. Many statements which glorify previous acts of terrorism are obviously indirect encouragement of the commission of those offences. If one goes around saying that the destruction of the World Trade Centre in New York and the bombing on the Tube were wonderful events and should be repeated as often as possible, one is glorifying them and indirectly encouraging the commission of like offences. Subsection (3) is not needed to enable a prosecutor to say to a jury, ““He said, ‘Aren’t these people wonderful? They blew up half of America—that’s the way to get to heaven’. Surely, members of the jury, that’s a fairly obvious encouragement to do the same””. That is why subsection (3) is largely unnecessary. But what subsection (3) actually states is that the statements,"““indirectly encouraging the commission of . . . acts of terrorism . . . include every statement which glorifies””." That means that if one finds a statement that does not encourage terrorism, none the less—by reason of subsection (3)—the judge must direct the jury that, whatever it may think about that statement, if it is a glorification it has to be incitement by indirect encouragement. That must be highly pernicious. That is why subsection (3) is, in many cases, unnecessary and is, in some important cases, positively pernicious since it requires a jury to consider something as indirect encouragement whereas, in reality and common sense, it would not decide it to be so. It is not a result which, on the whole, we should greatly encourage in our criminal courts.