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Terrorism Bill 2005-06

Secondary information

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

677 c549-613 

Session

2005-06

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Report stage

Procedure

Government defeats

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

Terrorism Bill .As amended in Committee (HL)
Tuesday, 20 December 2005
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c613 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 43 and 44:"Page 5, line 4, after ““of”” insert ““, or in connection with,””""P...

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 677 c584 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for her reply, which was as careful as always. I am also gra...

Show all contributions (98)

Lord Kingsland | 677 c587-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 9:"Page 1, line 15, leave out subsection (3) and insert—" ““(   )   For the pu...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c590 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 16:"Page 2, line 29, after ““circumstances”” insert ““of the statement’s publica...

Lord Goodhart | 677 c590 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall clarify the situation. Following the new amendments introduced by the Government, ...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c588-90 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 15:"Page 2, line 22, leave out from ““proceedings”” to end of line 26 and insert...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c588 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 13:"Page 2, line 15, leave out from ““whether”” to ““relates”” and insert ““anyt...

Lord Goodhart | 677 c592 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my name, too, is on this amendment, and I support everything that the noble Lord, Lord Kin...

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 677 c591-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, like everybody else I was glad and relieved that intention was to be an ingredient in the ...

Lord Kingsland | 677 c590-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 17:"Page 2, line 45, at end insert—" ““(   )   A person commits an offence und...

Viscount Bledisloe | 677 c578-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the proposal that subsection (3) be excluded. On balance, I also support the pro...

Bishop of Winchester | 677 c579-80 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am increasingly puzzled. It seems to me that the amendment tabled by the noble and learn...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 677 c580 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to echo what the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Winchester said about the ext...

Lord Kingsland | 677 c581 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, is the noble Baroness therefore saying that the Bill should contain no definition of ““ind...

Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 677 c580-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I too support the efforts of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, to remove subsection ...

Lord Peyton of Yeovil | 677 c581 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree with what has been said. I salute with joy the speech of the noble and learned Lor...

Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 677 c581 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I understand the temptation to define it but I think we should remove this part of the Bil...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 677 c581 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, but not, I hope, to glorify me.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c581 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is only right that I should declare to the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, that for many...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c602-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 21:"Page 3, line 10, leave out from ““within”” to end of line 21 and insert ““su...

Lord Haskel | 677 c603 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have to tell your Lordships that if Amendment No. 21 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendme...

Lord Kingsland | 677 c602 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 18:"Page 2, line 46, leave out ““commits an offence”” and insert ““disseminates ...

Lord Kingsland | 677 c599 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am surprised to hear the noble Baroness say that in her case because the House universal...

Lord Haskel | 677 c604 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if Amendment No. 25 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendments Nos. 26 and 27 due to pre-empti...

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 677 c603 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 24:"Page 3, line 22, leave out subsection (4)." On Question, amendment agreed t...

Lord Kingsland | 677 c603 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am most grateful. On Question, amendment agreed to. [Amendments Nos. 21A to 23 not mov...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c603 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall be happy to do that. I can certainly write to the noble Lord. I take it from the n...

Lord Kingsland | 677 c603 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendment No. 21A. At the time I tabled the amendment, it appeared that...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 677 c592-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I add just one thought as a non-lawyer. Amendment No. 20 is almost impossible to understan...

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 677 c593 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister said earlier that she was disappointed that the House was not thanking the Go...

Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe | 677 c593-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, start by warmly welcoming the Minister’s decision to amend the Bill to include a r...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 677 c599 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree completely with the noble Baroness that there is no desire to make politics out of...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c597-8 (Link to this contribution) Because, my Lords, the whole purpose of the publication is not to generate terrorism. It is a bit li...

Lord Goodhart | 677 c597 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I see that it is not the intent of Mr Jones the bookseller that this book should be read b...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c598 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, all I can say to the noble Lord is that the way this is raised in our amendment is the cle...

Lord Goodhart | 677 c598 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am sorry to intervene again. I think the Minister is incorrect in suggesting that our am...

Bishop of Winchester | 677 c607 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the Minister sits down, in light of what she has just said and of what the noble Ba...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c607 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I need only say that the noble Baroness’s concerns have been registered. Indeed, the noble...

Lord Kingsland | 677 c607 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we support what the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, said and have nothing further to add.

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 677 c608 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in the hope that the Bill will not cease the process of being surveyed by this House compl...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c608 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as I have indicated from the very beginning, the ability to continue to scrutinise does no...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 677 c607-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise because the hour is getting late, but I have one further question. Does the Mi...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c607 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the terms under which these provisions will bite are clear. The noble Baroness is right to...

Lord Goodhart | 677 c613 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for her response and for quoting me back at myself. However,...

Lord Goodhart | 677 c608-10 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 42:"Page 4, line 27, at end insert—" ““(9A)   Nothing in this section or secti...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c610-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I absolutely understand that the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, speaks to his amendments with ...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c604 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 28 to 30:"Page 3, line 40, leave out ““the context of”” and insert ““relation ...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c604 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 25:"Page 3, line 30, leave out subsection (5)." On Question, amendment agreed t...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c604 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 31:"Page 4, line 1, leave out subsection (8)." On Question, amendment agreed to...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c604 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 36:"Page 4, line 10, leave out from ““proceedings”” to ““did”” in line 20 and in...

Lord Haskel | 677 c604 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if Amendment No.   36 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendments Nos. 37 to 39 due to pre-empt...

Lord Haskel | 677 c604 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my brief says that if Amendment No. 40 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment No. 41.

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 677 c604 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think there is an inadvertent error in the brief.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c605 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 40:"Page 4, line 22, leave out from ““endorsement”” to end of line 27 and insert...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 677 c605-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 41:"Page 4, line 27, at end insert—" ““(e)   that the publication to which the...

Lord Kingsland | 677 c560-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a rare occasion on which we are going to disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Goodha...

Lord Plant of Highfield | 677 c561 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as someone who participated in this discussion on Second Reading, and was extremely unhapp...

Lord Rees-Mogg | 677 c561 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not a lawyer, and am not clear about the difference between subjective and objective ...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c551-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 4: "Page 1, line 12, leave out from ““he”” to end of line 14 and insert ““publi...

Lord Brabazon of Tara | 677 c556 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should point out that if Amendment No. 4 is agreed to, I will not be able to call Amendm...

Lord Kingsland | 677 c556-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may raise a procedural point with the noble Baroness. The last version of the gr...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c557 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hear what the noble Lord says and perhaps I can be frank with him in relation to our pos...

Lord Kingsland | 677 c557 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I indicate to the noble Baroness that no one doubted for one moment that that was a fact. ...

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 677 c557 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support what the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, has said. It seems to me that Amendments No...

Lord Goodhart | 677 c557-60 (Link to this contribution) moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 4, Amendment No. 4A:"Line 7, leave out sub-paragraph (ii)." ...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c551 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the matter in the amendment to which the noble and learned Lord, Lord Cameron of Lochbroom...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c551 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 3: "Page 1, line 11, leave out ““on his behalf””" On Question, amendment agree...

Lord Cameron of Lochbroom | 677 c550-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, will the Minister explain a problem I have with the amendment so far as it introduces the ...

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 677 c551 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, does ““some members of the public”” rule out one member of the public?

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c549-50 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 2: "Page 1, line 5, after ““by”” insert ““some or all of the””" The noble Baro...

Lord Kingsland | 677 c550 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for her introduction, which has helped the Bill to be looked at dispa...

Lord Goodhart | 677 c577-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my name is attached to all the amendments in the group and I endorse everything said by th...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 677 c575 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble and learned Lord has put words into my mouth without my having notice of what he...

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 677 c575 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have nothing to add to what I have already said. The clause can be made compatible in th...

Lord Kingsland | 677 c575-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment No. 9 is in my name and those of my noble friend Lord Henley and the noble Lord,...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 677 c568 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for giving way. I fully accept what she says. However, the date...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c568-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there is no criticism of the noble Baroness for raising the matter: it is right that she s...

Lord Goodhart | 677 c569-70 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to all the noble Lords who have expressed concern about the recklessness tes...

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 677 c572-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 8:"Page 1, line 15, leave out subsection (3)." The noble and learned Lord said:...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c567-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, for his valiant attempt to diffe...

Bishop of Chester | 677 c566 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the debate this afternoon has surely demonstrated that the concept of recklessness is uncl...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 677 c566-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the debate about recklessness was in these terms originally. ““Objective recklessness”” is...

Lord Dearing | 677 c565-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have two questions. First, I am interested in Clause 2(1)(d), which has to do with provi...

Lord Butler of Brockwell | 677 c566 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may follow that by generalising the case described by the noble Lord, Lord Rees-...

Viscount Bledisloe | 677 c564-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, having listened to this very interesting debate, it seems to me that there are two strands...

Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe | 677 c565 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my primary concern is the definition of ““intent”” in Clause 2. I will save my fire until ...

Lord Eatwell | 677 c564 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I ask the Minister to take due note of the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady William...

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 677 c564 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, hope that in her reply the Minister will be able to give some indication of where ...

Lord Judd | 677 c562 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, having participated in Committee when we discussed these issues, I join my noble friend Lo...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 677 c562-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I follow what has just been said by the noble Lords, Lord Judd and Lord Rees-Mogg, because...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c581-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, that is absolutely true, because others have done it before me. The amendments in this gro...

Lord Kingsland | 677 c599-600 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if sometimes it appears temporarily in vain, the marvellous thing about your Lordships’ Ho...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c599 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the reason we find it difficult is that we think it is not clearer when one looks at the w...

Lord Morris of Aberavon | 677 c576-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise to support the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick. I am particularly gra...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 677 c613 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that further consideration on Report be now adjourned. In moving the Motion,...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 677 c596-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for setting out so clearly her continuing concerns. All the con...

Lord Haskel | 677 c604 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if Amendment No.   31 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendments Nos. 32 to 34 due to pre-empt...

Lord Ackner | 677 c580 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree that subsection (3) must clearly go, for the reasons which have been fully explain...

Subjects

Databases ICT Incitement Exemptions Libraries Internet Higher education Organised crime Publications Sales Terrorism Surveillance Telecommunications British Library Encouragement of terrorism

Legislation

Terrorism Bill 2005-06

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk