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Terrorism Bill

My Lords, we are making it clear that this provision applies to training camps in this country. There is nothing to prevent journalists from continuing with their ordinary journalistic reporting with regard to troubles in other places in the world. We are dealing with terrorist camps of this nature. I remember very graphically the example given by the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, of the circumstances in which she found herself. When she discovered that she was somewhere she clearly did not wish to be, in the middle of a terrorist camp, she got out of there. That is what John Simpson said in his report, too:"““I made my excuses and left””." Quite right too. We can assure someone in that position that their ability to report in a proper way is not in any way impinged on by this provision. We need to look at this provision with a great deal of care, and we have done so. We do not think that the first part of Amendment No. 62—paragraph (a)—is necessary. The second part of the amendment would provide that a person does not commit an offence if, while at the terrorist training camp, he had no intention of furthering the commission or preparation of acts of terrorism or convention offences. As I indicated before, we consider that to be a significant loophole. It is not difficult to imagine that our courts might be faced with a steady stream of people claiming that they were simply observing, but not participating. Some might claim that they were just doing the catering or running the crèche, or myriad other excuses. What would certainly happen is that people would argue that they were only at the terrorist training camp to provide humanitarian assistance. We have to grapple with the mischief with which we are faced. It is a severe and acute mischief, which we must address. Therefore, our provisions need teeth. We cannot afford simply to allow them to be a toothless bulldog that cannot bite on any of the things that need to be changed. The Government’s position is clear: no one has any legitimate reason to be at a place where they know that terrorists are being trained. It is as simple as that. I understand that there is a difference of view, but we believe that the provisions we are now putting in place are necessary to address the real threat. They should not impinge improperly upon ordinary journalistic licence; anyone behaving properly will be able to work quite comfortably within them. I hope that that has provided a modicum of reassurance in respect of journalists, but I absolutely anticipate that, if it has not, the noble Lord, Lord   Goodhart, and others may wish to return to the matter.