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Terrorism Bill

I urge my noble friend to give serious consideration to what the noble Baroness said and to treat her arguments as highly relevant to the reality of many situations. At home in my study, I have a photograph that I treasure. It is of Chief Lutuli receiving the telegram telling him that he was to receive the Noble Peace Prize for his efforts to bring about change in South Africa by non-violent, passive means. As somebody who, as a younger Member of the other place, went through that period in political history, I can remember my tussles with my conscience on this issue. I came to the conclusion that while I could not personally embrace violence as a means of political change, I had to understand the position of the ANC because the outside world had totally failed Chief Lutuli and his fellow strugglers who used non-violent means. That is a real situation. My experiences in Chechnya have underlined the very same kind of point. I do not apologise for mentioning that again, although I seem to do so almost every time we turn to these matters. But it is not only in Chechnya or South Africa that this remains true. I make the point emphatically that some of us who take what the noble Baroness has said seriously do not endorse violence as a means to political change. But it is important to understand why some people in desperation feel they have no other course. I believe that this amendment has been carefully crafted. It simply puts in the Bill a requirement that the Law Officers who have to decide whether they will proceed with a case do seriously consider these matters. It does not make any particular course mandatory; it simply says that these matters must be seriously considered. It would be good, even at this stage, if the Government could consider that position carefully. Perhaps I may also say that I am a member of the Joint Committee on Human Rights and that we have had long deliberations on this Bill. At the outset of our report, we said that we believed that our Government’s human rights responsibility was to protect the people of this country. We said that if, in the total effect of the proposals, a situation might inadvertently be made more dangerous rather than less dangerous, the Government would—albeit unintentionally, obviously— have failed to fulfil their human rights obligations because they had aggravated the situation. This issue of counter-productivity underlines many of the discussions on the Bill. It is one that profoundly preoccupies me. At times I almost think it preoccupies me more than the human rights and humanitarian arguments, because it is so central to our own well-being and safety. I simply suggest to my noble friend that if we cannot embrace what the noble Baroness has just argued, we cannot bring ourselves to understand seriously the real predicament in which some people in desperation sometimes find themselves, and we may well increase the number of people prepared to listen to the arguments of the extremists. In resisting the extremists, in winning the battle for hearts and minds, we have to fall over backwards to demonstrate consistency and a determination to uphold the values and principles of which compassion and understanding must be very central, and which are so important to our way of life. I believe the noble Baroness has put her case moderately. I believe the amendment is important. I urge my noble friend and her colleagues in government to give it very careful consideration.