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Terrorism Bill

My Lords, my noble friends are too kind. If I offended anyone on that occasion, I can only apologise. The reason, however, was that I feel passionately about this. I have genuine concern. That, perhaps, carried me away. I address that to my noble friends in particular, and to the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, for whom I have great affection despite not always sharing her views. The noble Baroness and I were concerned about the way in which the CIA played a part in the downfall of democracy in Chile, getting rid of Salvador Allende. I have been concerned about the way in which intelligence agencies gave support to the Contras in Nicaragua. Notwithstanding the impeccable credentials of the noble Baroness, Lady Ramsay of Cartvale, I am not always inclined to take the word of intelligence agencies. I have no reason to be unduly supportive of the police, some people here might recall. I accept what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick said: that we do not automatically accept what they say; but we have to give some weight to what they say. I share their concern that the terrorism which the Americans faced on 9/11 and we faced here in London last July is of a different order and type from the terrorism that we have seen in the past. Therefore, different powers are needed to fight it. They are trying to undermine not just our freedoms, but our whole way of life. That is why I have come around to the view that, for a very few—remember, the noble Lord, Lord Carlile of Berriew, said that it would be only one or two suspected terrorists of a particular type—more time is needed, subject always to that seven-day review by the judge. I say to my noble friend Lady Kennedy of The Shaws that each time it is reviewed after seven days, both sides are able to argue the case for continuation of detention or otherwise. That review by a senior judge is the safeguard. As the noble Baroness, Lady Ramsay of Cartvale, said, we had a very lively debate on the 90 days, with overwhelming support for it. We were right, however, not to move it on that occasion. We had to take account of the decision of the Commons, where it had already been rejected. However, 60 days—which is almost as effective as 90 days as far as the police and other agencies are concerned—was tabled by Janet Anderson in the Commons, but never debated, called or discussed. I know that she would like the opportunity to table it again. I know, from those I have spoken to in the Commons, that the Commons would like an opportunity to discuss it again. I think we should give them the chance to do so.