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Government of Wales Bill

I declare some interests. I am a former chairman of the Brecon jazz festival, vice-president of the Hay festival of literature—which, with the Florence family, we founded to great success—and my daughter is an actor who performs regularly in Clywd Theatr Cymru and on S4C, so I must be careful what I say. However, I fully support the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Temple-Morris. He may be surprised to hear this, as I am an ardent devolutionist. I also support what the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, who has done a tremendous amount of work for opera in Wales, has said. We have all benefited from the previous status of the Arts Council of Wales, which has performed remarkably well. It went through a rough patch about five years ago but, other than that, it has done a very good job indeed. I am not a lawyer, but I tend to agree with interpretation of the noble Lord, Lord Temple-Morris, that, in a legal sense, the Arts Council does not have quite the same status as what would be called a quango. Indeed, when a previous Secretary of State, Ron Davies, said that he was going to have a ““bonfire of the quangos””, I do not think he was referring to the Arts Council or the Sports Council, because they have a different status. All that needs to be said has been said. I do not want to delay the Committee too long with these matters, but there is undoubtedly a case for such bodies, which stem from a Royal Charter and which are at arm’s length, retaining their status because they should not be the subject of huge political controversy. They should continue to produce excellence for Wales. As we have heard today, they do a very good job. The noble Lord, Lord Temple-Morris, was correct to refer to Sections 28 and 32 of the Government of Wales Act 1998. It seems extraordinary that Section 28 debarred the Assembly from removing any function from a body listed in Part 4 unless it was with the consent of that body, yet Section 32 has been used to cause the present, enormous hiatus in the construction of the arts in Wales. I am pleased that Elan Closs Stephens and her committee are to look at the overall situation. The people on that committee are wise and they look as though they will come to a sensible conclusion. I hope that the same wisdom will apply in the Assembly, but we are on dangerous ground here—I speak as an ardent devolutionist—because this is a matter for the Assembly. None the less, the Government of Wales Act 1998 took account of these bodies which were formed under Royal Charter. I give way to the noble Lord, Lord Rowlands.