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Government of Wales Bill

Secondary information

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

681 c483-533 

Session

2005-06

Department

Wales Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

Government of Wales Bill. Brought from Commons. Explanatory notes HL Bill 81-EN also published.
Wednesday, 1 March 2006
Bills
House of Lords

Government of Wales Bill
Wednesday, 3 May 2006
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Lords

Deposited Paper HDEP 2006/388
Tuesday, 6 June 2006
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Kingsland | 681 c532-3 (Link to this contribution) It does not lie here, because where Assembly measures are concerned in Part 2, the power has already...

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 681 c533 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House do now resume. In moving this Motion, I suggest that the Committee stag...

Show all contributions (85)

Lord Elystan-Morgan | 681 c532 (Link to this contribution) As I understand it, the Secretary of State will be little more than a legislative errand boy. The de...

Lord Kingsland | 681 c532 (Link to this contribution) I may be corrected by the Government subsequently. I understand that there are no circumstances unde...

Lord Elystan-Morgan | 681 c532 (Link to this contribution) I said that the ultimate sovereign decision will lie with this House and the other place: of that th...

Lord Kingsland | 681 c532 (Link to this contribution) Thank you very much. The noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, with whom I have served on many occasions ...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c532 (Link to this contribution) Thank you.

Lord Kingsland | 681 c532 (Link to this contribution) In that case, the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, should be voting against Part 3, but supporting Part 4 wi...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c532 (Link to this contribution) We are all agreed. The Conservative Party agrees that we all want to get to Part 4. The question is ...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c522-3 (Link to this contribution) We on these Benches oppose the amendments. We start on a different basis from the Official Oppositio...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c523 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I follow what the noble Lord says, but we are dealing with the Bill in front of us. I do not se...

Lord Kingsland | 681 c523 (Link to this contribution) I want to make it absolutely clear that we are not against that solution. We are against it without ...

Lord Elystan-Morgan | 681 c525-6 (Link to this contribution) I suspect that all those who have taken part, and will be taking part, in this debate will run true ...

Lord Crickhowell | 681 c523-5 (Link to this contribution) I acknowledge that the noble Lord and many of his friends have been pretty consistent on this issue,...

Lord Norton of Louth | 681 c526-7 (Link to this contribution) I did not intend to speak in this debate, but I feel I must respond to the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 681 c527-8 (Link to this contribution) This has been a fascinating debate. The noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, has certainly taken away fr...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 681 c529-30 (Link to this contribution) The noble Duke is absolutely right in his definition; I am merely describing what the Welsh counterp...

Duke of Montrose | 681 c529 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. I wonder whether he could clarify something for...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 681 c528-9 (Link to this contribution) The committee noted—the noble Lord was fair enough to quote this point but I want to use it as evide...

Lord Crickhowell | 681 c528 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord asserts that he has answered the point, but I have already pointed out to him that th...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c531 (Link to this contribution) Why do we not simply accept that the Welsh Government need expanded powers in order to do their job,...

Lord Kingsland | 681 c531 (Link to this contribution) I am astonished that the Minister should have left the principle of increased democracy until his pe...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 681 c530-1 (Link to this contribution) But it might be the case that the question is impossible to put because the process whereby one deve...

Lord Kingsland | 681 c530 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord. I want to understand the Government’s position. Is it that Par...

Lord Kingsland | 681 c531-2 (Link to this contribution) Surely, then, the position of the noble Lord ought to be to vote against the inclusion of Part 3 in ...

Lord Elystan-Morgan | 681 c486-7 (Link to this contribution) I have some sympathy with the amendments proposed. The office of Counsel General has suffered a sea ...

Lord Richard | 681 c487 (Link to this contribution) When the Assembly was constituted as a corporate body, it was quite clear that one needed one Counse...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c485 (Link to this contribution) We on these Benches support the amendment and seek clarification on whether the Counsel General is n...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 681 c485-6 (Link to this contribution) I support what has just been said by my noble friend Lord Thomas of Gresford and the noble Lord, Lor...

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 681 c483 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Mov...

Lord Hunt of Wirral | 681 c483-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 42:"Page 29, line 28, at end insert—" ““(   )   No recommendation for the appo...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 681 c493-4 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is not going to entice me down the path of the Ram doctrine. I am not sufficient a co...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 681 c494-5 (Link to this contribution) It is my privilege, too, to welcome the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, who proposed this amendment. We go ba...

Lord Hunt of Wirral | 681 c495 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, for welcoming the amendment. It is good to be working ...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 681 c490 (Link to this contribution) We feel that this amendment is too restrictive and prescriptive. Eight Ministers does not encompass ...

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 681 c491 (Link to this contribution) As we have heard, Amendment No. 43 would limit the number of Ministers to eight and Deputy Ministers...

Lord Roberts of Conwy | 681 c491-2 (Link to this contribution) : I am grateful to the Minister for his reply and the other comments made in this brief probing deba...

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 681 c487-9 (Link to this contribution) I begin by warmly welcoming the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral, to our discussions. Several issues ...

Lord Hunt of Wirral | 681 c489 (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting debate. I am particularly grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Thomas of G...

Lord Roberts of Conwy | 681 c489-90 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 43:"Leave out Clause 51 and insert the following new Clause—" ““LIMIT ON NUMBE...

Lord Richard | 681 c504 (Link to this contribution) What the noble Lord said is important. He said that the Assembly seems to have made an error of judg...

Lord Roberts of Conwy | 681 c504-5 (Link to this contribution) The other side of the question that the noble Lord raised is whether this House should aid and abet ...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 681 c503 (Link to this contribution) I think from what has already been said that it does not. I am sure that I will be corrected if I am...

Lord Roberts of Conwy | 681 c503-4 (Link to this contribution) I shall be very brief. I think that I speak for all sides of the Committee when I thank the noble Lo...

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 681 c505 (Link to this contribution) As it appears to be fashionable to declare a few interests, I shall start by saying that I am also a...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 681 c502-3 (Link to this contribution) I declare some interests. I am a former chairman of the Brecon jazz festival, vice-president of the ...

Lord Rowlands | 681 c503 (Link to this contribution) Does this Bill repeat Section 28 of that Act in any place?

Lord Temple-Morris | 681 c495-501 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 45A:"Page 36, line 11, at end insert—" ““other than where to do so would rende...

Lord Crickhowell | 681 c501-2 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has rendered the Committee and the people of Wales a very considerable service by tab...

Lord Richard | 681 c506-7 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend said there would be a difference between the English and Welsh situations. If this B...

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 681 c507 (Link to this contribution) I will have to come back to my noble friend on that. I have difficulty thinking in parallel, but to ...

Lord Crickhowell | 681 c507 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the noble Lord, but he previously made a very important statement. He said t...

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 681 c507 (Link to this contribution) I do not agree; what I have said is absolutely consistent. The power the Assembly has under Section ...

Lord Temple-Morris | 681 c507-8 (Link to this contribution) It falls to me to say a few words in conclusion about this amendment before I seek leave to withdraw...

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 681 c505-6 (Link to this contribution) I was going to come on to the matter but, as the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, has raised it, I will...

Lord Roberts of Conwy | 681 c506 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has said that it is not for us to hinder the Assembly in any of its decisions, but coul...

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 681 c506 (Link to this contribution) I think that ““aid and abet”” is a highly emotive phrase. We are looking at Clause 61 on ““Support o...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 681 c506 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for coming in at this point. Could the Minister clarify for me that bodies established u...

Lord Anderson of Swansea | 681 c509 (Link to this contribution) That is a fascinating point, but is the noble Lord suggesting that the wording on the programme has ...

Lord Roberts of Conwy | 681 c509 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps it would not be wise, but I can certainly read from the cover of the document for the openin...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c509 (Link to this contribution) I thought that the Assembly had decided to call the building the Senedd. Am I wrong?

Lord Roberts of Conwy | 681 c509 (Link to this contribution) Very briefly, I note that Clause 64 highlights the concentration of initiating power in the hands of...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 681 c508-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 46:"Page 36, line 39, after ““Ministers”” insert ““, or the Senedd by resolution...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 681 c509-10 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that I shall go down those byways; I am certainly not going to compete with the noble ...

Lord Elystan-Morgan | 681 c509 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord reflect on the fact that an address given on the very same occasion on behalf of...

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 681 c515-6 (Link to this contribution) I begin by associating the Government with the congratulations expressed by the noble Lord Lord, Liv...

Lord Roberts of Conwy | 681 c514-5 (Link to this contribution) I listened carefully to what the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Coity, said at Second Reading, and I hav...

Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 681 c514 (Link to this contribution) These are the first words that I will utter on the Bill. They will be extremely brief and modest, bu...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 681 c513-4 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that this is the right moment to congratulate all those involved in the voluntary sector i...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 681 c513 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for having read out the relevant part of the letter from Jane Hutt o...

Lord Crickhowell | 681 c513 (Link to this contribution) I want to make the briefest possible intervention to raise a simple point. I would be grateful if th...

Lord Anderson of Swansea | 681 c511-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 49:"Page 40, line 39, at end insert ““for approval””" The noble Lord said: In s...

Lord Roberts of Conwy | 681 c518 (Link to this contribution) I quite understand the anxiety behind these amendments which once again show concern that the Assemb...

Lord Anderson of Swansea | 681 c516-7 (Link to this contribution) I concede that part of the motive in tabling the amendments was to seek a signal about the importanc...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 681 c519 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy, for his support of the principles lying behind the am...

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 681 c518-9 (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 51 would require Assembly approval of the regulatory impact assessment code when publi...

Lord Kingsland | 681 c519-22 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 54:"Page 50, line 23, leave out subsection (1)." The noble Lord said: I rise to...

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 681 c511 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 47:"Page 37, line 41, at end insert ““but subject to any appropriate modificatio...

Lord Hunt of Wirral | 681 c492-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 44:"Page 35, line 22, after ““anything”” insert ““within their powers””" The no...

Lord Crickhowell | 681 c505 (Link to this contribution) As so often before, the noble Lord, Lord Rowlands, asked a crucial question. I asked myself that que...

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 681 c506 (Link to this contribution) I understand that there will be a difference because of the way the clause is worded. I think that w...

Lord Roberts of Conwy | 681 c509 (Link to this contribution) Someone drafted it, and I suspect that it had the Presiding Officer’s approval.

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 681 c510-1 (Link to this contribution) I thank those Members who have contributed to this short debate. The amendment is phrased in relatio...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 681 c517-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 51:"Page 42, line 6, leave out from ““must”” to end of line and insert ““have it...

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 681 c527 (Link to this contribution) I have not joined in this debate at all, but I was a member of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory R...

Subjects

Devolved matters Devolution Arts Culture Legislative competence Legal opinion First ministers Powers Public appointments Members National Assembly for Wales Referendums Politics and government Ministers Voluntary organisations Wales Welsh Government Arts Council of Wales Counsel General for Wales Voluntary Sector Partnership Council Statutory instruments

Legislation

Government of Wales Bill 2005-06

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk