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Road Safety Bill [HL]

My Lords, it is not for me to go into the decision-making processes of groups such as PACTS, but let me say that it enjoys a high reputation because its members support what it does and the Government take seriously representations from that source. I sought to disabuse noble Lords of the notion that this is all based on emotion; the issues have been established on other grounds. In moving the amendment the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, said that the punishment should fit the crime. Let me make one point absolutely clear: there is nothing about mandatory penalties in the Bill. The clause certainly proposes maximum penalties, but it would be for the courts to decide which is appropriate. It might be that a community penalty or fine is imposed. In cases where those are not considered appropriate, a custodial sentence may be passed. The courts will decide. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Lyell, must accept that the Government have addressed themselves to the Bill which had been passed by this House. They take at face value, as they are bound to, what the law would be if the Bill was enacted and they had not effected any changes to what it contained when it was returned to them. I have listened to what the noble and learned Lord said with the greatest care and I take his views very seriously, but let me make it absolutely clear that the amendment—and noble Lords should consider this seriously—would restrict the ability of magistrates’ courts to impose a custodial sentence but the Crown Court would still be able to impose a maximum sentence of five years. That is why I indicated that one of the difficulties which would occur if the amendment was carried would be that magistrates’ courts—although it is expected and hoped that they will deal with large numbers of these cases—the moment they had the slightest inkling that a serious penalty might be appropriate, would be more likely to pass cases on to the Crown Courts because they would not be able to deliver it. That is what the amendment would do it if were passed and those who vote for it—with all the best intentions in the world—would be creating what we regard as a serious weakness in the Bill.