---

Road Safety Bill [HL]

My Lords, as I expected, we have had a long debate on the amendment. As I said at the beginning, it is a very contentious issue and there are some very strong feelings about it. I regret the last part of the discussion because we all know that if the House agrees to my amendment today we will get another chance to discuss it again. Unless the other place accepts the amendment, there will probably be another chance to discuss it. We got a bit bogged down on the technicalities of when we table amendments. Of course, we take advice. We do not always have the advice that the Government have, but if we have to discuss this matter again we can take further advice. The issue is not resolved. No one in this House would disagree that people should receive the sort of punishment that suits the crime. However, some of us feel that this potential new legislation might sometimes stop that happening and that courts would acquit people when they should be convicting them, due to the fine dividing line between something that should not have happened because of a person’s action and something that did happen. Parliament is not the place to make these judgments. We have heard some rather emotional speeches in which people have said that Parliament should be the place that decides on this matter—but the courts should decide. We feel very strongly that this legislation is not, as the Minister has said, leaving the power with the courts; it is taking power away from courts and giving it to Parliament, which it should not do. That is why there are strong feelings about it. With that, I should like to test the opinion of the House. On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 6A) shall be agreed to? Their Lordships divided: Contents, 104; Not-Contents, 89. 7: Page 44, line 26, after ““tests””,”” insert— ““(aa) in paragraph (b), after ““conducted”” insert ““, conditions which must be satisfied during the currency of an appointment, the charging of reasonable fees in respect of applications for appointment or appointments or in connection with any examination or assessment which may be required before appointment or during the currency of any appointment””,”” "8: Page 44, line 27, leave out ““paragraph (b)”” and insert ““that paragraph””""9: After Clause 38, Insert the following new Clause—" ““Compulsory surrender of old-form licences "(1) In the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52), after section 98 insert—""““98A Compulsory surrender of old-form licences" (1) The Secretary of State may by order require the holders of licences of a specified description, or any specified description of the holders of such licences, to surrender the licences and their counterparts to the Secretary of State. (2) An order under this section may specify as the description of licences to be surrendered— (a) licences which are not in the form of a photocard, or (b) licences in the form of a photocard of a description no longer specified by the Secretary of State as a form in which licences are granted. (3) An order under this section must specify the date by which the licences to which it relates (and their counterparts) are to be surrendered; and may specify different dates in relation to different descriptions of licence holders. (4) An order under this section must include provision for the grant of a new licence to every holder of a licence surrendered (with its counterpart) in pursuance of the order who— (a) pays such fee (if any) as is specified by the order, and (b) provides the Secretary of State with such evidence or further evidence as the Secretary of State may require (which may include a photograph which is a current likeness of him). (5) A replacement licence granted pursuant to provision made by virtue of subsection (4) above expires on the date on which the surrendered licence would have expired had it not been surrendered (but subject to subsection (6) below). (6) Where the period for which the surrendered licence was granted was based on an error with respect to the licence holder’s date of birth such that (if the error had not been made) that licence would have been expressed to expire on a different date, the replacement licence expires on that different date. (7) A person who, without reasonable excuse, fails to comply with any requirement to surrender a licence and its counterpart imposed by an order under this section is guilty of an offence. (8) An order under this section may— (a) make different provision for different cases, and (b) contain such incidental and supplementary provisions as the Secretary of State considers appropriate. (9) The power to make an order under this section is exercisable by statutory instrument. (10) Before making an order under this section the Secretary of State must consult with such representative organisations as he thinks fit. (11) A statutory instrument containing an order under this section is subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.”” "(2) In Schedule 1 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (c. 53) (offences to which certain sections apply), after the entry relating to section 94A of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) insert—"

"(3) In Part 1 of Schedule 2 to that Act (prosecution and punishment of offences: offences under the Traffic Acts), after the entry relating to section 96 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) insert—"

"10: Insert the following new Clause—" ““Fee for renewal of photocard licence and issue of certain alternative licences "(1) In section 99 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (duration of licence)—" "(1) In section 99 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (duration of licence)—" (a) in subsection (7) (grant of new licence free of charge on surrender of photocard licence after ten years, in cases of error and on change of name or address), omit ““and any licence granted under this subsection shall be granted free of charge””, and (b) After that subsection insert— ““(7ZA) The Secretary of State is not required by subsection (7) above to grant a new licence on the surrender of a licence and its counterpart by a person in pursuance of subsection (2A) above unless the person has paid the fee (if any) which is prescribed; but any other licence under that subsection is to be granted free of charge.”” "(2) In section 117A(2)(c) and (3) of that Act (disqualification etc. of holders of Community licences: issue of alternative licences), for ““, free of charge,”” substitute ““, on payment of such fee (if any) as may be prescribed,””””" "(2) In section 117A(2)(c) and (3) of that Act (disqualification etc. of holders of Community licences: issue of alternative licences), for ““, free of charge,”” substitute ““, on payment of such fee (if any) as may be prescribed,””””"