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Mental Health Bill [HL]

This has been a debate of very high quality, one of the best that I have had the privilege of taking part in. I thank all noble Lords who have participated in it and thank the Minister for his very full and thoughtful reply. We start from a point that is quite unusual when we debate legislation. There is near universal agreement outside this House, as evidenced by the list read out by the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, that there should be a set of principles on the face of the Bill. We have heard this afternoon that there is very wide agreement within this Housethat that should happen. The noble Baroness, Lady Neuberger, is right to have posed the essential question: why not place principles on the face of the Bill? Are the arguments advanced by the Minister strong enough to cause us to think again? We have heard from many noble Lords that principles have real practical value. We can see that already in Scotland. I was interested that the Highland Users Group in Scotland has said in a recent broadcast how useful it is to have principles in the Act in giving them confidence in how the legislation will be implemented. That is particularly important because psychiatry is the only branch of medicine feared by its patients and the noble Lord, Lord Adebowale, got that point absolutely right. He and the noble Lord, Lord Bragg, were right to say that part of the point of a set of principles is to raise ethical standards of practice. Because they are in the statute, a sound set of principles should have a lasting value over the long term. I took note particularly of what the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, said; namely, that the justification for principles is that people will have confidence in the safety of the decisions made. There seems one particular weakness in a code of practice. A code can be departed from as a result of a House of Lords judgment or case law. That can occur in a whole class of cases so long as there is a cogent set of reasons for doing so, and I have an example in my file. By contrast, guiding principles are of such general applicability that it is hard to see which of them could possibly be incompatible with the detail of the law. Sadly we have to remember that there is a long and ignoble international history of abusing detention in mental hospitals. The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, was right that circumstances change, but if principles are to be changed in response to those circumstances, as we might envisage, it is essential that this only follow parliamentary debate and decision. The fact is that practitioners pay more attention to the Act than the code; that is also true of the Mental Health Review Tribunal and the courts. Over 25 years the Bill will lead to the detention and forced treatment of at least 1 million people, and ensuring that the provisions of the Act are in line with the principles would be time very well spent. The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, pointed to a possible conflict between some provisions in the amendment. I think that the principles, by their nature, involve a balance between them at different times and in different circumstances. That is exactly what occurs in the implementation of all human rights law, when we think about it. The human right to life, for instance, and the right to liberty. There are circumstances when those two are in conflict. That is the nature of the implementation of this kind of law. The noble Lord, Lord Warner, was critical of the amendment and commended to our attention the principles set out in the code of practice as an alternative. I would just say to him that the amendment is actually modelled very closely on the wording of the Scottish Act of 2003. It was because I did not want to fall into the trap of importing practical detail on to the face of the Bill that I did not do a straight crib of the code of practice. The noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, was absolutely right about that. The code of practice is primarily that, rather than a set of guiding principles. The noble Baroness, Lady Murphy, made the excellent point that the principles in the amendment have been around for a very long time and have gained wide acceptance; however, I am more than happy to concede that the amendment may not be perfect. I should just say that there is a misprint in the last line of the amendment. It should say ““informal”” care and treatment. If the principles are not compatible with anything in the Act, surely we ought to try to identify what those issues are. I think we will come to a number of them later in our Committee proceedings, but I say to the noble Lord, Lord Warner, that it should not be beyond the wit of parliamentary counsel to propose a set of principles along the lines of those set out in the amendment. There is, of course, a larger point. If it is the united will of this House, supported, we may be entitled to hope, by the Minister—at least in principle—that such a clause be drafted, then a way should be found for that to happen. The noble Lord, Lord Williamson, said that we must be bold, and I fully agree with him. He is absolutely right. I urge the Government to be bold, to use this opportunity to put the legislation into a context of values and, in so doing, make a real difference to mental health patients. If the Minister commits himself to that, he can count on the support of noble Lords on all sides of the House as he sets about the task. This is clearly not the occasion to test the opinion of the House. There will be a great deal more discussion and debate before we settle this issue. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 1 agreed to. Schedule 1 agreed to. Clause 2 [Learning disability]: