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Mental Health Bill [HL]

I understand that position and will come back to it. Essentially, we believe that these are service issues which need to be addressed, and while we all want to ensure that all patients and AMHPs have the services that are necessary available to them when they need them, we believe that it is not appropriate to address those issues through legislation. The noble Earl, Lord Howe, suggested that the trust could appoint an AMHP as an agent. But if an AMHP is given responsibility for conveying by the trust, nothing would be different from the position at present. There would be the same requirement for them to secure services, such as from the ambulance service, police service and bed manager. Good local protocols setting out how these services will co-operate will still be key. More substantively, the Bill allows an application to be made for a patient’s admission only if there is appropriate treatment available. That is extremely important. I therefore believe it is right that if the appropriate treatment is available in a particular hospital, the application should be made to that hospital, not to any in the trust that may or may not be able to provide appropriate treatment. The amendment is intended to address the important issue of the extent to which ASWs can rely on the co-operation of a trust in admitting a patient. I understand that a breakdown in this co-operation can result in unnecessary delays in securing a bed or an ambulance if one is needed, leading to distress for the patient and often their family, and avoidable difficulties for the ASW. The amendment seeks to address this by transferring the legal responsibility for conveying and admitting a patient to the trust. Of course I sympathise with the concerns that the amendment reflects, but I do not believe that a legal solution is the answer. It is a matter of good practice. General provisions under the National Health Service Act 1977 already require NHS bodies to co-operate with local authorities. None the less, despite this legal requirement, I acknowledge that ASWs can have problems accessing trust resources. I hear all that noble Lords have said about the level of local delivery. It has been said before in this House that it is not appropriate to legislate centrally for local arrangements, and I agree with that view. What is needed here is better communication between trusts and local authorities and agreed protocols. It is not the Government’s place to say what these local arrangements should be. However, I will consider whether the codes of practice can be strengthened—I am sure that they can be—to make clear the duty on trusts to co-operate with AMHPs in providing an effective service for conveying and admitting patients in their area. Amendment No. 33A would replace Section 140 of the Act, which currently provides that a primary care trust in England or a local health board in Wales must advise the local authority of all the hospitals that accept patients as urgent cases for the treatment of mental disorder. The amendment would replace the existing section with one that provides for a much wider-reaching duty. It provides for a duty on the PCT to work co-operatively with the police, local authorities, the ambulance service and NHS hospitals that provide in-patient services to develop and publish a protocol that covers a wide range of practice issues. It provides that such protocols must cover maximum response times for trusts, the police and ambulance services in urgent cases, arrangements for obtaining a bed and prioritising cases, conveying a patient safely to hospital, assessing urgent cases and ensuring the safety of all those involved. The amendment describes what should be good practice. Throughout England and Wales, the police, local authorities, health authorities and trusts, including the ambulance services, have in place protocols and local agreements to address these issues. I understand that there are enormous pressures on services and that in some areas of the country there are concerns about local services co-operating effectively to ensure the safe and efficient admission of patients to hospital. Various surveys have been referred to, but, as I said in the context of Amendment No. 33, I do not think that legislation is the correct place to address these issues. While we agree that it is good practice to develop, agree and publish local protocols such as those detailed in this amendment, the code of practice already provides guidance on this matter. As the noble Baroness, Lady Gardner of Parkes, explained, the code makes it clear that authorities should have joint policies and procedures on the conveyanceof patients and that health authorities, trusts and local authorities should co-operate in ensuringthat professionals meet regularly to promote understanding and to address issues. It also calls on social services authorities, health authorities and chief constables to establish policies for the removal of patients to places of safety. The code of practice states that local protocols on these matters should be in place, but it does not specify the details of what the protocols should contain. The protocols must be kept up to date to reflect changes taking place, as the noble Baroness said. We believe that it is right that the details of local arrangements should be a matter for local decision, taking account of local circumstances, and that they should not be dictated by central government. We therefore do not believe it necessary to include them in statute. The issues raised in this debate must be addressed properly to ensure that services are available. However, we do not believe that the right way to address these practice issues is through legislation. We have to change practices, but that is a matter of ensuring proper implementation. In many ways, that is a matter of changing culture so that mental health services are no longer seen as Cinderella services and so that the urgency of mental health cases is properly addressed. I ask the noble Earl to withdraw his amendment.