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House of Lords: Reform

My Lords, the vote in the other place last week did not come as a great surprise to me, but it makes most of the White Paper irrelevant. I sensed that the result was inevitable, given the way in which the Prime Minister has treated the constitution and this House. Furthermore, we seem to have forgotten that four years ago in the other place, the 80 per cent elected option was defeated by only three votes, and the calls for an elected Chamber have since increased. However, the Government do not like the 100 per cent elected option which received such a thumping majority last week. It was the result they wanted least. This debate has been fascinating for anyone who is interested in human nature and our inherent desire to retain control over what we have. I have listened on numerous occasions to the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor telling us to abide by the will of the other place. It is elected—we are not. It has primacy—until it does not suit us. What a different speech he gave yesterday as he tried to put clear water between their decision, the Government’s preferred solution and how we might vote tomorrow. It was a joy to listen to. I hope that the noble and learned Lord will continue his new independent spirit for some time to come. In the White Paper, there is no criticism of the way in which we perform our function and no argument as to why this House should be reformed, except that it should be. It is all the weaker for that. I remember well having my ear bent as a Minister and having to defend the role of this House to fellow Ministers in another place after we had suffered another defeat or given way to the strength of opinion here. Some of those Ministers are now in this House, and having understood the work that we do, have made impassioned speeches in its defence. I welcome their Damascene conversion and only wish that I could have been a brighter light to them in the past. However, it is inevitable that an unelected Chamber, amending one’s legislation, will always rankle with Ministers in another place. We were told in 1999 that stage 2 reform would be comprehensive, was inevitable and would happen quickly, which is why elections to replace deceased hereditary Peers did not really matter. Interestingly, yesterday and today, we have heard from those same noble Lords that this House is doing a valuable job: we work hard and conscientiously; we improve the quality of Parliament and have a high standard of debate; and we complement the House of Commons and are the paragon of what a second Chamber should be. Many have argued that they are, "““fully convinced that the country possessed a legislative which answered all the good purposes of legislation””." Actually, those were the words of the Duke of Wellington in 1830 as he tried to stop the Reform Bill. One of the reasons for opposition to it was that the wrong type of person would be elected to Parliament and distinguished experts would no longer find a place. Nothing has changed but the speakers, and the fears of the Duke were as unfounded as the fears expressed yesterday and today. Similarly, the arguments used in this debate for staying as we are are exactly those used by many hereditary Peers in 1999 when they were so ungraciously ejected from this Chamber. Some, though I fully agree not all, had worked long, hard, conscientiously and, if we want to discuss costs, with considerably less expense allowance than we receive eight years later. The role of this House has not changed since then and, although the composition is slightly different, it is doing neither a better nor worse job. I also believe that the votes against the Government would not have been much different if the 1999 reforms had not taken place. In this respect, there is little difference in my mind between a Peer recently appointed by the Prime Minister for whatever reason and the descendent of a Peer appointed by King James II of Scotland. My preferred option for reform would be to look at both Houses together, but that is not the proposition before us. We are discussing only reform of this House, so I must focus on that. Logically, there are two options that would work satisfactorily in the long term: a wholly appointed House or a wholly elected Chamber. I remain of the opinion that I had in 1999—namely, that this House is doing a good job—but I believe also that it can and should do a better one. To do that, it needs to change its composition. For the sake of good governance in the UK, it should hold the other place to account. That might at least induce some badly needed reform at that end. As has been said, the genie is out of the bottle. So is the Labour Party going to be true to its manifestos, as the noble Lord, Lord Richard, asked? As he knows better than me, his party has changed its mind on numerous issues. It would not surprise me if it changed it again on this. As a nation, we are encouraging, and in some cases forcing, democracy on other countries around the world, but we seem to be scared of allowing it here. I welcome in principle the vote in another place, but there is a mass of devils in the detail which need to be got right in the next stage, otherwise the Government will succeed in their aim of neutering the role of the second Chamber. I plead with my noble friend Lord Strathclyde not to enter into any side deal, as was done in 1998, because that restricted debate here and the way we operated to an almost untenable extent. The consequences, both expected and unexpected, of a change of this magnitude will be huge, and include the reform of the Parliament Acts. Does the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor agree with many of us that this should be the subject of a referendum? The key question for me is what consistencies there should be if we had an elected House. I should like to see an electoral system based on the Senate in the USA, whereby each state has two members, whether it is Delaware or California. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, seems to have forgotten that there has been devolution. Although I have 16 elected representatives in Parliament, like many in rural areas I am still suffering an odd type of democratic deficit. My nearest of seven MEPs is 4.5 hours drive away, which is equivalent to someone in London having a representative in York or Lancaster. The nearest of my eight MSPs is 1.5 hours away, but my MP is locally based. It is not surprising, therefore, that he does so much constituency work. I believe that we should go back to something like the old county system of the 1980s, before the local government reforms, and each area should elect two Members to serve here. To use the existing local government boundaries would continue the urban domination and, in my case, the nearest Member would undoubtedly be in Inverness, some 2.5 hours drive away. Reform of this House offers a great opportunity to strengthen and in some cases restore the link between the people and Parliament. I ask the noble and learned Lord to look at paragraphs 9.33 to 9.35 of the White Paper, restricting former Members of the House of Lords in standing as MPs. Can he explain why what is sauce for the goose is not also sauce for the gander? I rather agree with those paragraphs, but surely it should work both ways. We shall never reach unanimity on this subject but, if there is to be any reform, it must lead to a strong second Chamber. The other place has seen a lot of its power seep away to Brussels, Edinburgh and Cardiff and is not doing the work that it should. What it needs is to be challenged and only an elected second Chamber with sufficient powers—and that is my caveat to my support for that principle—can do that effectively.