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House of Lords: Reform

My Lords, on Second Reading of the reform Bill in 1998 I said that the best way forward would be to look at Parliament as a whole in the light of the devolution process in the United Kingdom and even taking into account the role of the European Parliament, of which I was once an elected Member. I argued that the House of Commons was as ripe for reform as was the House of Lords and that we should look at the powers and functions of both Chambers before deciding on their composition. Consistency is, I hope, my strong point so I was heartened that many of your Lordships said much the same thing in this debate, in spite of the fact that the White Paper does not give us the opportunity to take that wider view. What we have at present, as the result of hundreds of years of history and continuity, and some more recent attempts at modernisation, is what the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart of Swindon, succinctly described yesterday as, "““a unicameral system masquerading as a bicameral system””.—[Official Report, 12/3/07; col. 559.]" It seems strange that, as the Mother of Parliaments, we cannot find a solution to our bicameral dilemma when so many other countries have. When winding up, I hope that the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor will be able to tell us which systems in other countries, particularly some of the new democracies of central and eastern Europe, have been looked at in the process of deciding the future of the House of Lords. It is interesting that relatively few countries around the world other than Commonwealth countries have chosen to follow the Westminster model. Most have a presidential system on the lines of the French system, which was most famously copied by the United States. Perhaps we should catch up with the de facto situation here and convert, or at least consider converting, to the presidential alternative. Then we could be looking at a senate and assembly or congress, with the checks and balances that they imply, as some speakers advocated. But that may be too radical. At the previous opportunity we had to vote on the composition of the House of Lords, like my noble friend Lord Strathclyde and a number of other hereditary Peers, I voted in favour of a 100 per cent elected House with a fallback position of 80 per cent elected and a 20 per cent topping up to ensure the necessary breadth of expertise. I intend to do the same tomorrow although I listened with great interest to the arguments that were advanced. I am particularly conscious that we need to ensure the diversity represented in your Lordships’ House, particularly in respect of the religious representation. Our Bishops’ Benches provide a very valuable dimension to our deliberations, apart from leading us in prayers each day. The disappearance of that element would be a retrograde step even if that representation should be wider. However, in view of the House of Commons vote last week, and in spite of the White Paper recommendations, my solution for a 100 per cent elected House of Lords is to advocate indirect elections. I realise that the Wakeham commission discounted this, in part at least, and that the White Paper considers only one form of indirect elections. Yesterday my noble friend Lord James of Blackheath put the justification extremely well so I shall not repeat all the arguments, although he reached a different conclusion to mine. If electoral colleges were set up to elect their own distinguished representatives, doctors, nurses, lawyers, architects, academics, local authorities and so on could each form an electoral college, not forgetting the churches or, indeed, the hereditary Peers, who at present have a separate electoral college, which seems to work rather well. Elections do not have to be direct to make them democratic. That system would enable a period of years to be set on the service of Members so elected and would have many other flexible advantages. I hope that, whatever the result of tomorrow’s vote, there will be an opportunity for that to be considered. I have not heard too many noble Lords discuss the name of our House. My view is that a change from calling ourselves the House of Lords is essential. If the real thing—in other words, the hereditary Peers—is not allowed to sit here any more, it is absurd to create hundreds more Peers of the realm, albeit only for life. This also means that the House of Commons as a title would seem an anachronism. My suggestion is to fall back on the alternative, which is frequently used even now, of an upper House and a lower House. Naturally, this House would be the upper House, but we would all be Members of Parliament. During the debate many of your Lordships admitted that, as recently appointed Peers, or as former Members of another place, where they may have given long service, they came here with a certain prejudice and misconceived idea of how the House of Lords operated. Perhaps your Lordships will therefore forgive me if, as a result of my mere 22 years here, I draw attention to two things mentioned again and again in the debate which rather irritate me. One is the suggestion that the pre-reform House of Lords was supine during a Conservative Government and superactive against a Labour Government. Having served as a Minister for seven years during successive Conservative Governments, I assure your Lordships from personal experience and observation that the House of Lords always comes into its own when there is a huge majority in the House of Commons and the Government of the day is able to steam-roller its legislation through at that end. Secondly, it has been said that a House of Lords composed of a hybrid mixture of life and hereditary Peers is somehow less effective than a wholly appointed House. Hereditary Peers did their public duty in an entirely admirable way. Those who did not turn up, and were criticised for that, were at least cost effective. The noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, will appreciate that. My view is that the Government’s concession over the 92 hereditary Peers came about when they suddenly realised that without many of the hereditaries who chaired Select Committees and held key functions in your Lordships’ House, the place would collapse or degenerate into chaos. If, as has been said, the number of government defeats and the vast quantity of amendments to government legislation is so much higher during a Labour Government, I suggest, in the concise wording of the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart of Swindon, that this is because too much ill judged and badly prepared legislation has been foisted upon us. I hope that tomorrow we shall go for a change that will benefit not only this House and this Parliament but also the country.