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House of Lords: Reform

My Lords, a substantial number of people take part in those polls and they are carefully balanced to get a proper sample. They are likely to be a more accurate reflection of opinion in the country than the one-person opinion polls that have been represented as being very effective illustrations of the public mood by a number of Peers during this debate. A further poll today has reinforced the public’s support for this reform, specifically endorsing the votes of MPs last week. There was no mucking about, no attempt to put a trick question; there was just a straight question: do you support the views expressed by MPs? We should rejoice that the public want us to be more effective, and not simply prophesy doom. We should be optimistic that we can achieve this now that the Commons have voted to give us that opportunity. The debate in the Commons last week and the debate here this week have naturally revolved around the alleged challenge to the primacy of the Commons. Here I want to expand on the point made by my noble friend Lord Goodhart. We should be clear that primacy depends on five different elements: first, the direct election of all MPs, all at the same time in a general election; secondly, the need for the Government of the day to gain and retain their confidence; thirdly, the presence of the Prime Minister and most senior Ministers in the Commons; fourthly, the sole responsibility for supply and expenditure; and, finally, the longstop of the Parliament Acts. That is a more accurate description than the oversimplified description given a few minutes ago by the noble Lord, Lord Norton. None of it could be changed without the express agreement of both Houses of Parliament. The doom-mongers who told us that any elections to this House would automatically turn that all upside down are living in a fantasy world. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Boothroyd, who spoke so eloquently yesterday about the need to emphasise the primacy of the Commons. Surely it is wrong to suggest that that primacy relies simply and solely on the electoral mandate. As Mr Jack Straw and the White Paper made clear, the relationship between the two Chambers in Parliaments all over the democratic world varies enormously. It is quite unrelated to whether they are, or which are, elected. Primacy is more immediately significant in this debate. The royal commission, the Joint Committee on House of Lords Reform and the Joint Committee on Conventions have all reiterated its vital significance. In the report of the last, we said: "““We were instructed to accept the primacy of the House of Commons. None of our witnesses has questioned it, and neither do we””." In that report, we debunked the myth that somehow increasing the influence and effectiveness of your Lordships’ House necessarily reduces the power of the other place. This is no zero-sum game. By giving enhanced credibility and democratic legitimacy to this House, we will strengthen Parliament as a whole in its prime responsibility—to check the overmighty Executive. As the noble Baroness, Lady Quin, said so eloquently last night, we should not seek to be the rival or replica of the Commons; we should seek to be complementary—