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Mental Health Bill [Lords]

May I say that I understand the sentiments behind both these amending provisions, but that for reasons I shall set out, it is difficult to accept them? I intend to set out what we are trying to do in respect of the issues covered by amendment No. 88 and to discuss some changes in the Bill that impinge on them. New clause 11 is designed to amend section 135(1) of the 1983 Act. Let me explain that the purpose of that subsection is to protect a person who may have a mental disorder from ill treatment, neglect or an inability to care for themselves and to ensure that they receive any care or treatment that they need. Obviously, the use of that subsection is quite a serious step, which can involve considerable interference in the person’s home and family life, so we have to be very careful when we talk about making changes to it. New clause 11 amends that section so that it would apply to virtually anyone with a mental disorder who might need care or treatment. That brings us back to the concern that the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mr. Walker) himself raised in pointing out that there had been rather a large presence when the person concerned was a young vulnerable girl. Social workers have raised the issue of getting a warrant more quickly and easily, but we must try to ensure that every effort is made to gain entry in a voluntary manner before resorting to obtaining a warrant. Obviously this does not always work, as was illustrated by the circumstances that the hon. Gentleman outlined. It is feared that opening up new clause 11 in this way would extend those rather intrusive powers. That is why we have a problem with it, and why it is unacceptable. Concerns have been expressed by social workers about this issue, but we have looked at the matter carefully and want to make improvements to the present arrangements at local level between, for example, mental health workers and the police, without taking the rather intrusive powers proposed in the new clause. Amendment No. 88 was splendidly moved by the hon. Member for Broxbourne, no doubt building on the experience that he gained in Committee. I recognise that concern has, quite rightly, been expressed about the use of police stations for the detention of mentally disordered people. I have recently met representatives of the Police Federation to discuss their concerns about the issue. We also debated this in Committee, where we went over a number of the arguments. I said that I agreed that a police station was not the ideal place to detain such people, and that a hospital-based facility was more likely to be suitable in almost all circumstances. That is what we are aiming for, but we need to recognise that there will sometimes be occasions when a police station has to be used; my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton, South-East (Dr. Iddon) outlined an example. There could also be circumstances in remote rural areas in which this might have to happen. I am glad that the amendment goes some way towards recognising that, and that it does not try to limit the circumstances in which a police station may be used. It is true that 72 hours is a long time for someone with a mental disorder to be detained at a police station. It is important to remember, however, that that is the upper limit. Recent data produced, I think, by the Independent Police Complaints Commission showed that the average length of time spent in police custody under section 36 of the 1983 Act was 10 hours, and that the vast majority of people left within 18 hours. In 2005-06, only about 5 per cent. of the people detained remained in custody for more than 24 hours. That is reassuring, but we still need to do better, because it is also clear from the figures that some people are detained for longer than that. The amendment would make it impossible for such people to be detained, which causes real practical problems in regard to our accepting it.