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Welsh Ministers (Transfer of Functions) (No. 2) Order 2009

My Lords, I declare an interest at the outset in that I had ministerial responsibility for housing in Wales. However, it was at such a remote time in the past that I had better describe it as being in the 80s. Wales had its special housing problems then, as now. Obviously, a great deal of detailed work has gone into the preparation of these orders. Those of us who have studied them and the accompanying memorandum are appreciative of the clarity of these documents. I have few comments. I want to deal first with the order which gives to Welsh Ministers functions relating to building and building standards. What is being done and why is well set out in the Explanatory Memorandum. We are told that it is a consequence of the one-nation agreement between Labour and Plaid Cymru parties which support the present Welsh Assembly Government. That agreement provided for the Climate Change Commission for Wales and a carbon reduction target of 3 per cent from 2011 in devolved areas of government. In turn, that development requires the appointment of separate building regulations advisory committees for England and Wales in place of the single advisory committee currently covering both countries. I want to concentrate on the duplication of these committees and the bureaucracy that goes with them without any apparent real need or supporting public demand. We are told that the impact on the public sector will not be significant and that there will be no budgetary transfer from the UK Government to the Welsh Consolidated Fund. That may be so, but we are facing a period of severe public spending restraint, whatever happens at the next general election, and we must be mindful of the latent costs of duplications of this kind and question the need for them whenever they are proposed. Where they are proposed, as in this case, can the Government ensure that there is maximum co-operation between what are very similar committees for England and Wales with similar functions in order to avoid needless duplication of effort, staff and expense. I am concerned about the points made by my noble friend Lord Glentoran relating to how more stringent regulations may possibly result in increased costs to builders and, indeed, to building purchasers. This will not be welcome to Welsh people if it occurs, and with due respect, the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, was somewhat unfair in accusing my noble friend of making an anti-devolution point. I really think that with all his building experience, he was talking about the cost impact of more stringent conditions.