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Climate Change (Political Response)

I agree with most of those points. It is quite likely that the first 10 per cent. reductions are achievable in many cases, but I return to the point that I do not know. I very much hope that the NHS signs up—it can do so, if it chooses, which is fine. The Government do not control that aspect of the NHS, of course, as they do not control local authorities, but I think that the NHS signing up would be a good thing. I also accept that there are savings to be had and appreciate that a great deal more could be done. The issue of the Department of Energy and Climate Change building and its energy rating provides a good example. What concerns me is that the DECC building—it was formerly owned by the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food; it is a Government-owned building—was actually gutted. The outside is original, but there is nothing original on the inside. It was done not that long ago, but who on earth set the standards for that? Why does it have such a low rating for what is a comparatively modern construction? There is no excuse for it. What DEFRA did in its recent refurbishment—for example, the use of recycled carpet tiles and the introduction of water-saving and energy-saving measures—provides an example of what can be done with an old building. The Treasury received awards for its conversion of the old Treasury building into a modern building. Clearly, there has been a failure with the DECC building, and someone is responsible for it. That is what worries me. The Government are developing excellent frameworks and strategies, but the pace of progress in many cases is slow. I know that work has been done on procurement, but I am not convinced about the way in which the Government are delivering or whether they are exerting the influence that they should. An awful lot more could be done. I appreciate—I know it from my own experience—that the wheels of government turn at a terribly slow rate, and I think that that is the case whatever Government are in power. It could be better. I would be grateful if the Minister would ensure, in addition to the very welcome carbon reduction plans, that there is a mechanism for delivery—perhaps by using the green Ministers’ network or perhaps by having a much tighter evaluation of Government procurement, Government buildings and so forth. Schools were mentioned earlier. I, too, was concerned about the original standards, but they have been improved. My own local authority is part of the current wave of Building Schools for the Future, and I am very encouraged by the work put into sustainability and energy saving. A great deal more could nevertheless be done, and the Government could have an enormous influence. Let me deal briefly with Copenhagen, because it is crucial. This year is crucial, because the outcome of Copenhagen is crucial—the outcome is crucial for every part of the globe, and it is not going to be easy to get the one that we want. There is still quite a gulf between many countries, particularly between the developing and the developed countries. My right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull, East (Mr. Prescott) rightly touched on that, and I agree with what he said. There must be an outcome, but I worry that the Copenhagen conference will just agree principles. There is some urgency, and Copenhagen must produce key objectives. Firm commitments from developed countries on their emissions are necessary. Given how difficult and crucial the conference will be, world leaders must be there. I am proud that our Prime Minister has given a lead by saying that he will go, and we need President Obama there, because key players such as the US, China, India and the UK will be very important. Some commitments from developing countries are necessary, although they should not be the same as ours, as the right hon. Member for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce) has mentioned, because they are entitled to develop as we have. However, they can develop in a clean way, and there is a role for the developed world in putting money into a clean technology fund. My last point, which my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Rob Marris) will welcome, is that we need an adaptation fund to help the most vulnerable, poorest countries adapt to what is happening now. The challenges are big and of great importance. I have great confidence in the leadership from our Government, but an awful lot of work must be done to build confidence with other countries. Part of that confidence building is leading by example. I, for one, am more than happy to sign up to the 10:10 campaign, because we can give individual leads by example as well as national and international ones. That is the important point that should come out of this debate.