---

Coroners and Justice Bill

I hope that I have answered my noble friend; he knows ACPO’s position. I repeat that these offences relate only to threatening words and behaviour intended to stir up hatred. They were introduced because of the fact that gay men were often subject to attacks of this kind. That is why the legislation was introduced. Those uttering such words or exhibiting such behaviour should not have the cloak of so-called freedom of expression saving to protect them. This is a moment of truth. Do we really mean it when we say that gay men and lesbian women should be treated as equal, and that we should do all we can to avoid them being discriminated against, threatened and having violence used against them? Or do we think that it does not really matter? Although very distinguished speeches have been made on behalf of the noble Lord, Lord Waddington, not least his own, the claim that he and those who support him make, that this is an issue of freedom of speech, is untrue: it is not about freedom of speech at all. Freedom of speech is guaranteed. People in this country should not be arrested under this section because they have behaved or spoken in the same way, for example, as the lady who was mentioned. We are talking about an extremely serious criminal offence with a very high threshold. Not only is the freedom of expression clause unnecessary but it has the danger that it may lead some of those who attempt to commit this offence to rely on the cloak that it offers. So those who really believe what they say about equality as far as sexual orientation is concerned should support the Government tonight.