---

Money-laundering and the Financing of Terrorism: EUC Report

I take notice of the question. I had not seen it in those terms. I am sure that we are not making a distinction by ignoring neighbouring states or states in any particular part of the world when we look at any links that there might be between terrorist organisations. We all know, alas, that terrorism is an international business that knows no boundaries. I am pretty confident that the answer is that we are seeking that information wherever it might exist. I take note of the question. If there is any useful information that I can add, I will write to the noble Lord. On the other question about piracy, the Government do not make or facilitate substantive concessions to hijackers, including the payment of ransoms. However, the payment of ransoms is not illegal per se in the UK. When pirates attempt to spend money received in ransom payments, it is considered the laundering of proceeds of crime. We take, and encourage all Governments to take, firm action to identify and disrupt money-laundering. This was a point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, and others. The latest position is that a group of experts from the UN piracy global contact group and other key regional actors will meet at Interpol headquarters in January to explore possible disruption techniques, which could prevent the laundering of piracy proceeds. This demonstrates the importance that the Government attach to addressing the problems of piracy. This group is the appropriate multilateral forum to advance work on this complex issue. The Government recognise the committee’s concern that assembling and paying a ransom through a regulated sector without disclosing it may lead to the commission of a money-laundering offence or a terrorist finance offence. The Proceeds of Crime Act and the Terrorism Act provide such a person with a defence if he has a reasonable excuse for not making the required disclosure to law enforcement. As highlighted in the Government’s response, we have carefully considered whether the Government should issue guidance to the regulated sector in relation to suspicious activity reports but have concluded that it would not be appropriate to do so. We are not aware of any demand from the sector for central guidance, other than that which already exists, as produced by the Joint Money Laundering Steering Group. The noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, asked me a series of questions. This is always painful for the recipient because they come about 30 seconds before you have to stand up and respond. The one that stayed in my mind was about the naming and shaming of EU member states. I am not sure that it is beneficial to name and shame, but the truth is that I do not have the names to shame, even if that were a desirable object. If the noble Lord will agree, I will write to him on that. Similarly, there is also the question of other countries with which we are negotiating bilaterally. I will write to the noble Lord about that, too. Time is not on my side now. There are a number of points that I have not yet responded to. The noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, raised the issue of cost and money-laundering regulations. However, we believe that regulation is not overly prescriptive. Banks have their own requirements on how to satisfy themselves. Therefore, in a sense, there is more than one party in this area that needs to address that. I have a number of other points which I will save noble Lords from having to listen to. I will look at Hansard tomorrow, write appropriately and put a copy in the Library. I conclude by again congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Jopling, and members of the European Union Committee on a very important report. I also thank those noble Lords who spoke before me for their contributions to the debate. I will write on any points that are outstanding. I express my appreciation of the statement made by the noble Lord, Lord Jopling, at the beginning of this debate recognising that the Government have sought to meet the recommendations of your Lordships’ committee. I hope that, with the additional information tonight, we have made that task slightly easier and that we have moved closer than we were at the start of the debate to your Lordships’ committee appreciating that we are committed and determined to move in the direction that your Lordships are seeking.